What's a few minutes between friends

[NottheWhiteRabbit]

I'm interested in people's view points on punctuality.

I'm generally on time for important things like work, interviews, and time critical activities like going to cinema or theatre etc.

But... for things like meeting a friend for coffee, soft play, walks etc, I would assume the meeting time as an approximate! I'm usually no later than about 10 mins. Is this very bad? I genuinely always aim to be on time but fate always conspire against me and I end up late for various reasons. But it could be because I'm more relaxed about the timing as it's only a leisure/ fun thing. Most of my friends are the same and we end up there about the same time anyway. If i'm the one on time, I'm also personally happy to go in on my own and get started on whatever we are doing or could wait at entrance or in the car. It becomes a problem when I meet a couple of friends who are obviously much more organised but are adamant to wait at the entrance of things, sometimes they're even early so they feel like they've waited a very long time! They do get a bit huffy. But I always text when I'm late, so in fact I'm 5/ 10 mins late but they've waited 20mins let's say, AIBU to think they don't get to be too pissed off?

It isn't that "can't be arsed putting my clothes on".

I have severe depression coupled with gender dysphoria, which means "putting my clothes on" can result in a genuine block. Why is it people are allowed to have a block about being on time, but I can't have one about getting dressed?

"What I think you have been saying is how much worse your panic attacks are than any you might be the cause of, and that if you were to cause a panic attack then the effect of that on you would be even worse than on the individual actually having panic attack."
Then you are reading something into my words that I did not intend. One thing I will say though is that - while kindness goes a long way, and I'll always try to be understanding of issues - I refuse to be held responsible for managing another person's mental health. Not only would I not want another person doing it for me, I find it disrespectful and insulting.
I did feel like you were being condescending by explaining to me what a panic attack is and my reply was more passive aggressive than it should have been, but you had already made your mind up about me by then.

As it turns out, among the people I'm likely to meet up with socially I'm more often than not going to be the first person to arrive. I might have to wait over up to an hour for some of them.
I've been told (in other contexts) that I'm extraordinarily patient, but honestly I don't think I am. I've just been culturally conditioned to know that this is going to happen and that my choice is either to wait or not to wait - I happen to think that these people are worth waiting for.

I'm not going to make myself late for his constant farting about when we should be setting off so after so many years together a little white lie time wise is the best solution then we get there on time.

So my question is, why not leave without him? If you're ready to go and he's farting about, why not leave him to it? Surely after a couple rounds of that, he'll start to sort himself out? That's what I meant by natural consequences.

I couldn't resist posting again as I'm up with the baby anyway! Raisinshoes, there's no point reasoning with these people that there's a possibility that running late night not actually be your fault or just no caring/ being lazy/trying to disrespect friends. They want to think the worst of people - people who are their friends no less. I get your point about estimating time, so some people say leave yourself half an hour extra - that's estimating time and we might get that wrong! Or possibly, half an hour is usually enough but that day, something happens it it took 45 mins!
People want to be martyrs too, they're the saints who always have to wait for the evil late ones who have ruined their lives. But if you read their actions, suggesting stop being friends with someone, leaving without husbands! In RL, you're going somewhere with your Dh, you'd leave him in the house and, what - take separate cars and arrive to wherever separately? That sounds like a fun time.

Well, sleep training a toddler is no fun either, but it has to be done. Why should late training a husband be a barrel of monkeys? It could be seen as just as necessary - unless you want to make yourself the sole grown up in the house, having to take charge of all the responsibilities re: being on time because you married a man child who can't grow up and sort his own timekeeping out.

Training your husband?? let's just make him conform to exactly how you want him to be, replace his personality, why not? There's more than one way to solve a problem. Cheesequeen is using a less militant approach, her husband is not a good time keeper, we know absolutely nothing else about him but you can now decide he's a man child who needs to be trained like a toddler.

I never suggested changing his personality. I suggested letting him suffer the natural consequences of this particular piece of rudeness/lack of thinking of other people.

I'm a stickler for punctuality and the type of person who leaves 30 minutes for a 20 minute journey!

My best friend is a bit like you - i don't sweat it but I will go in and start without her.

If you don't think you can be somewhere in time why not say you'll meet between 3/3.15. At least then people know they'll be a window!

So Rabbit, still here and able to get to important things on time but not when meeting with friends.

What about choosing to be on time for those friends it matters to?

I asked upthread but don't think anyone answered, if you know you're usually late then do you mention that when arranging to meet? "Ok, let's say 10 but that could mean anything up to 10.20" or "Ok, see you at 10" which would imply to me that you were likely to be there for 10?

I think it's rude, and presenting as I don't care about you as your not that important. I accept things happen and people can be late but people who are always late are quite rude in my book.

This is from someone who was often late til the above was pointed out to me.. and it kinda struck a chord

When I say I am "ready go", I mean I am at the front door, keys in hand and one step away from the great outdoors.

I have learnt though, that when OH is "ready to go", it means he is ready to go and put his shoes on, maybe have a wee, check his phone and usually make a cup of tea for the journey.

I now have to factor that in or else I get more and more pissed off at being late leaving (let alone arriving!) mainly because I could have used that time to do something, but instead I am standing at the door like a lump.

I love how the chronically late people say things like 'well I'm so glad I'm not friends with people like you!' when they're called on it.

As if punctual people will care and take a good hard look at themselves.

Teabagtits

My mother and brother persistently say "I don't do time" and are never on time for anything despite knowing how their lateness affects me. I find it incredibly selfish and disrespectful.

Why is their lateness 'selfish and disrespectful'? They prefer to be relaxed about time, but you refuse to allow/accommodate this, but they have to accommodate your preference for punctuality, otherwise they are selfish and disrespectful? You will, I'm sure, reply that the effect on you of their lateness is more disabling than the effect on them of your punctuality/desire for them to be punctual, but actually, you don't know what effect it has. I find people insisting on punctuality in an inflexible way to be incredibly stressful, and I tend not to spend time with people who can't accept that life has wrinkles rather than being a smooth highway.

@NottheWhiteRabbit - according to your posts, you have at least one friend who gets upset when you are late and keep her waiting - doesn't that worry you at all? I do notice that you have characterised her as 'huffy' - because that is a term that has more negative connotations - it has overtones of unreasonable flouncing - whereas if you say she is upset, that might mean you have upset her, which might suggest you had done something wrong.

If she really is a friend, why wouldn't you consider her feelings? Why would you carry on doing something you know upsets her? I really can't understand someone who could manage not to upset their friend (because you can be on time if it is important enough to you), but doesn't do it. That looks thoughtless at best, and self centred and unkind at worst.

Punctuality doesn’t come naturally to me, even though I really dislike being late. Which is a stressful combination – I often end up sitting on public transport willing it to go faster, or running to catch buses, or walking along the street at a faster pace than is comfortable. I’m rarely actually late, but I often get places just in the nick of time.

It really isn’t that I don’t consider my friends important or have no respect for their time. It’s more that I’m not very good at judging how long things will take. So if I’m meeting someone at 11:00 and it’s 10:20 and the place we’re meeting is 30 minutes away, I will think “oh, I still have time to empty the dishwasher before I go”. But after I’ve done that, I realise I still need to locate my keys, phone and a cardigan, so by the time I set off it’s 10:33 and I have to rush to get there on time.

I also have an unfortunate tendency to not think of myself as late until the actual time I’m supposed to be somewhere. So if I have left 5 minutes later than I should have, I still optimistically hope that I will manage to make it on time, even though rationally I know I’ve left too late.

I’m almost never late for work, but I recently moved house and my commute increased from 30 minutes to 45 minutes. It took me about two months of being late several times a week to actually internalise that I really did need to be out of the house at 8:15 to be there by 9:00. Completely irrational, but that’s the way my mind works. I think it’s a bad mental habit you get into in childhood and is quite hard to break.

I do try very hard and manage to be punctual 90% of the time (and am only up to 5 minutes late the rest of the time), but as I say, I don’t find it easy.

Hi OP - glad you came back...

Can I just ask how often you are early and the one left waiting? Because if you do try to leave enough time, sometimes things must go smoothly - meaning you must just as often be early as late. Or do you not really try to leave enough time at all

It basically implies that you think your time is more important than theirs. It's rude and arrogant.

I'm either 15mins early or 15mins late it seems ... especially if I rely on public transport. It's frustrating but I think most people understand that if we're all taking the train or bus or tube we're no longer 100% in charge of the time it takes. All it takes is one delay or cancellation and that's it you're late. Or of course everything runs to time and you end up early because you've tried to factor in a little bit of wriggle room.
I try to be chilled about it and we all keep in contact via text (even if we're only late by 5mins).

Interesting posts RaisinShoes. Are you talking about adult ADHD?

I'm always baffled by those who think persistent lateness is deliberate. Why would these people sabotage their lives if they had control over their poor timekeeping? Do they really think people set out to be late because their time is so much more important than others? How does fucking up their day and antagonising the people waiting help them in life? However, It's easier to dismiss this as rudeness than to rationlise and work out that a person who is consistently struggling to be on time clearly has an issue. Which is a close-minded and lazy attitude IMO.

I remember an exercise in drama school. To accustomise actors to scrutiny, the coach would ask each student to stand and calculate one minute, during this time the whole studio would look directly at them till they sat again. He timed them and most sat down before the minute was up. Two in the class stood for longer, one for nearly three minutes. This person was not enjoying the experience (not attention seeking) and seemed uncomfortable. As the course progressed, this person was the persistently late student.

As Einstein said, "time is relative".

I do think that if you are meeting with others who are always late then you can be more relaxed about the time. I meet with a lovely friend but she is always at the very least 30 mins late every time we meet. So I aim to get there 15/20 mins late now. I haven't arrived after her yet! And I always try to meet somewhere where I can sit and have a brew and a read so it doesn't matter too much if I'm waiting. I'd be annoyed if I was stood at an entrance somewhere though.

I think the op has said she can be on time for important things like work, interviews and things with a definite start time though. So it's more that she doesn't see being on time for friends as important rather than she actually has a problem organising herself.

i think that people who are always late or who never allow extra time are like that because they hate waiting. like their time must not be wasted or spent waiting so they push that onto others by always being late

^^This. Not for everyone but I do think it can apply for some people who are habitually late. And it is very annoying and selfish. I have a 'late' friend and my god, she hates it if others are late!

As for being berated for turning up early to things, what's it to anyone else? You late people ought to be glad that people do this because if by some miracle you were on time one day, at least you won't be kept waiting.

Unless you suffer from some sort of condition that prohibits time planning, it is beyond selfish to be late all the time. 10 minutes max is fine, anything else is just taking the piss. I bet if you had an interview you'd not be late...

As for having 2 minutes spare before you are due to leave so unpacking the dishwasher or whatever... WHY? Why not just be 2 minutes early? Why end up being late because you've done this, what's so abhorrent about actually being early or on time??

I always allow extra time to get somewhere rather than be late. And bottom line is... the perpetual late people do not allow enough time to get anywhere.