What's a few minutes between friends

[NottheWhiteRabbit]

I'm interested in people's view points on punctuality.

I'm generally on time for important things like work, interviews, and time critical activities like going to cinema or theatre etc.

But... for things like meeting a friend for coffee, soft play, walks etc, I would assume the meeting time as an approximate! I'm usually no later than about 10 mins. Is this very bad? I genuinely always aim to be on time but fate always conspire against me and I end up late for various reasons. But it could be because I'm more relaxed about the timing as it's only a leisure/ fun thing. Most of my friends are the same and we end up there about the same time anyway. If i'm the one on time, I'm also personally happy to go in on my own and get started on whatever we are doing or could wait at entrance or in the car. It becomes a problem when I meet a couple of friends who are obviously much more organised but are adamant to wait at the entrance of things, sometimes they're even early so they feel like they've waited a very long time! They do get a bit huffy. But I always text when I'm late, so in fact I'm 5/ 10 mins late but they've waited 20mins let's say, AIBU to think they don't get to be too pissed off?

I've had 4 kids, working mother, freelancer in a competitive industry blah blah blah. Years of school drop offs, pick ups, call times etc. And unless something major happens and something probably out of my control I'm always on time.

I don't even think about it really. I just subconsciously know how to do it now.
And it's not a big deal.

I'm quite a chilled sort but I get bored of making arrangements with people who are habitually late. Somethings are not as important - meeting at the beach or the park or arriving at a BBQ maybe. But when you've made food I think that's really a pia. And some people do it every time.

It's the always late ones who are boring.

People who are late without a good reason are twats.
It's a fact.

No need to copy and paste my posts and dissect the wording yet again Francis. But let me use your approach, people can't cope - really? So when your friends are late you have a complete melt down? Do you scream at them and then vow never to see them ever again?

If you organise to meet at 10:30am bloody well show at 10:30am.

Otherwise you're rude.

People are persistently late either because they don't give a monkey's (which is rude and arrogant) or because they are chaotic, disorganised people (which is a bit pathetic). I wouldn't be furious with a persistently late friend, or take offence. I'd just have a bit less respect for them tbh.

Sometimes I'm early, sometimes I'm late. If meeting at a pub I don't mind friends being late as I can have a drink and people watch. If meeting in town for shopping trip and they're late I will just text them and say I'm going into Zara come and find me when you get here. They do the same if I'm late. If meeting for lunch I hope they're not mega late as I love my food.

I can't get hugely worked up about being late in a friends/family situation and nor do my friends but then people gravitate to like minded people. For my few friends that do care I make more effort to be early, for the others who don't mind it's give and take. As I've got older I tend to arrive early most of the time - less last-minute outfit changes maybe?

The OP has had a pasting and I think that's because of the implication in the first post that friends were less important than other things... I have flexible working so am never late, but in my last job I was late sometimes and it wasn't an issue as I put in the hours. I arrive early for a medical appointment as I want to be seen but in social situations I'm less rigid. Possibly family influence plays a part, Mediterranean and Irish family background and generally those relatives don't mind too much about punctuality.

It's annoying when you've booked a table for a group meal at, say, 830pm and the full group aren't there until past 9. By the time we're ready to order food I'm starving and knackered!

wildghoysmama it is difficult to get tone across on a chat forum, you didn't upset me and I hope the same is true the other way. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

Of course no upset here either, RedDogsBeg. Very nice of you as reading back I can see how I could have come across as an arse.
Enjoy your evening too- sticking to tv and my book tonight

Sorry that was meant as an acknowledgement that I'm staying off threads tonight in case I over step my mark again!

FrancisCrawford - angry? No. But sarcastic, a tad. Again you are determined to make assumptions and have scrutinised the wording so that you can pick out negatives. And I had given up on explaining so was asking you directly how you would deal with the situation. You plainly said you can't accept/cope with people being late. Just wondering what happens when it does happen? Sad to hear that someone/ a friend being 5mins late would rock your world so devastatingly. I don't know your medical history on your anxiety issues so am not aiming to offend.

I stand by my theory that it's sad to arrive early and sit in the car, being on time is one thing but if you have time to get to places 20mins early, you clearly don't have enough going on hence "get a life".

According to your theory, the huffy friend will just drop me as a friend now anyway so problem solved.

No doubt you'll copy and paste the parts you can use to be outraged about. But the same points have been made. So it's been a fun "debate".
Have a good bank holiday weekend. Enjoy not being late to anything you have planned.

Ok, being that people have different strengths, is it possible that just as some people are not athletic, not good public speakers, not good at drawing - (SEn aside) some people are just not good at judging time!

Most people have a natural inbuilt sense of time, and can order tasks in their brain effortlessly. Their brain does it so seamlessly, that they are not even aware how many processes their brain has to go through to be able to judge how long to allow for the various tasks to be performed before a person is ready to leave their home. Because I have these difficulties, I have had to break all of these processes down into small tasks and try to estimate times.

If your executive function is average or above, you can do this easily without even thinking about it - and would likely assume that this process is the same for everyone else. It is NOT.

People seem to be projecting their own anger at being inconvenienced at some point onto the OP, and responding accordingly. Judging time is not as natural as breathing to some people, it requires huge amounts of effort for some, and sometimes they get it wrong. It seems easier for punctual people to believe that chronic lateness is some kind of moral shortcoming, done deliberately because of a lack of respect or laziness. Do you honestly believe that being frequently late does not impact negatively on a persons life? That perhaps people giving a flippant or jokey reason for lateness is a learned response to diffuse tension? People seem to prefer to attack and verbally punish for perceived moral shortcomings, than understand that chronically late people do not have as much control over the situation as it appears.

U2 do you not do irony?

Yes. When it is done well.

Sorry. I read that wrong. Yes, I do irony, but not so I sound like a try hard teen. That's just embarrassing!

Most people have a natural inbuilt sense of time, and can order tasks in their brain effortlessly. Their brain does it so seamlessly, that they are not even aware how many processes their brain has to go through to be able to judge how long to allow for the various tasks to be performed before a person is ready to leave their home. Because I have these difficulties, I have had to break all of these processes down into small tasks and try to estimate times.

Or instead of doing all that estimating, perhaps people just use a handy little gadget called a clock? Or a watch? That's how I know how long it takes me to get ready in the morning, and walk to the railway station, or the shops, or anywhere else I go frequently.

Or instead of doing all that estimating, perhaps people just use a handy little gadget called a clock? Or a watch? That's how I know how long it takes me to get ready in the morning, and walk to the railway station, or the shops, or anywhere else I go frequently.

No. A clock tells you what time it is.

That is one portion of information. Your brain then has to process that information, and make small calculations as to how long it takes you to accomplish specific tasks. Your brain has to make small estimations constantly without you even being conscious of it. That was the whole point of my post.

I'm estimating right now, that you didn't read my post properly, but thought you'd get in first with a pithy quip anyway. Yes I know what a clock is. I have approximately 6 of them in my house. For all the good it does me.

5 mins, no big deal at all. 10 mins, every now and then, fine. But if it's consistent or 15-20 mins it's so rude and inconsiderate!

My MIL is like this and it drives me insane. It's the pottering about before leaving the house - you have to warn her hours before we're due to leave, then keep chivvying her along and she's STILL late. Or if we're rushing for an appointment, she dawdles along looking at things in shop windows (she is not old and she's very fit btw, no mobility issues, etc.).

I also travelled with a friend like this and I just got so sick of her - everything was on her timetable, as if the world revolved around her

Of course, people are occasionally late for all sorts of reasons, that's life - but think of the person you're meeting, how he/she may have been frantic trying to get everything done so she could meet you on time, only to then be hanging around for 10 mins waiting for you to show up.

If we have to be anywhere I always tell him a time an hour after we're really meeting just to make sure we are actually there.

Before! Not after. Jeez, if I told him we had to be there an hour later than we needed to be there then we'd never bloody make it anywhere, lol

I'm sorry but I just don't buy "I have [x] condition so you have to understand I'm late all the time".

I am incredibly sympathetic to those people with those kinds of conditions, because I have one myself. I am awful at getting dressed. I can sit there in a towel on my bed for up to half an hour, putting off dressing because it feels just too hard.

But I know that about myself. So I build in an extra half hour of time before I need to be somewhere, to factor in that difficulty. And if you are self aware enough to be here saying "I'm late because I have [x] condition, then 90% of the time, you are self aware enough to do what I do and factor in extra time to compensate for your self-described shortcomings.

There will always be exceptions. Actual emergencies. The kind of social anxiety where the problem is BEING out in the first place, not merely getting there. Other things. But a lot of the time, conditions are being used as an excuse for lateness when the truth is, if you know you have it, you should be taking steps to mitigate it.

Sometimes, that might mean contacting the person you're supposed to meet and telling them that you can make plans with them, but the chances are, you'll be late. You don't have to say why, but you do have to give the other person the opportunity to decide if your lateness is a deal breaker for them.

Again, I have sympathy for those with actual conditions that contribute to perpetual lateness. I have one myself. But the difference is, I work around mine. I allow extra time for it. I plan around it. I don't use it as an excuse to keep people waiting on me.

Oh, and I despise the idea of "telling them a time half an hour before we're due to meet to factor in their lateness".

To everyone who beggars around changing times to compensate for someone else's lateness, why should you have to? If we are all grown ups, then surely we are all responsible for our own actions. Why should you have to tiptoe around someone else's rudeness/laziness/lack of consideration? Answer: you shouldn't. What would happen if you stopped treating them like toddlers who have to be worked around, and started treating them like adults who are in charge of their own actions? What would happen if they started being met with actual consequences for their rudeness/laziness/lack of consideration?

We need to stop taking on the responsibility for other people's lateness and start putting it back where it belongs: on the late people.

To everyone who beggars around changing times to compensate for someone else's lateness, why should you have to? If we are all grown ups, then surely we are all responsible for our own actions. Why should you have to tiptoe around someone else's rudeness/laziness/lack of consideration? Answer: you shouldn't. What would happen if you stopped treating them like toddlers who have to be worked around, and started treating them like adults who are in charge of their own actions?

In an ideal world, yes. When it comes to leaving the house with DH though I do tell him we have to be somewhere earlier than we actually do for my sanity. As I like to be on time!
I'm not going to make myself late for his constant farting about when we should be setting off so after so many years together a little white lie time wise is the best solution then we get there on time.

*sorry but I just don't buy "I have [x] condition so you have to understand I'm late all the time".

I am incredibly sympathetic to those people with those kinds of conditions*

Well this is one of the most conflicting statements that I've ever read.

If your cerebellum does not function properly or adequately, it's not just a matter of not being arsed putting your f*cking clothes on. Some mornings you do not know what order to do anything in. You're not sure if you should shit, shave or have a haircut. You can sit for an hour on the toilet, and think you've been on their for 5 minutes because your brain just goes into screensaver mode.

If something goes even slightly awry during my morning it can throw the entire process off. Being self aware, and having the ability to 'factor things in' are two completely separate things ffs. The amount of energy required to factor in variants that can occur in a morning routine can cause so much stress and confusion, that some people just opt not to leave the house at all. Myself included. When people say 'just give yourself an extra half an hour,' I think it's insulting frankly. As if you're too thick to have thought of that at some point that the last 30 or so years.

sorry but I just don't buy "I have [x] condition so you have to understand I'm late all the time".

I am incredibly sympathetic to those people with those kinds of conditions*

Well this is one of the most conflicting statements that I've ever read

Thank Gawd it's not just me lol
Was reading that thinking "eh?" I know I've had a couple of glasses of wine and it's silly o clock in the morning, but come on