You're just jealous

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

AIBU to think that this is a very unintelligent way to deal with someone disagreeing with you?

When I first started on Mumsnet I was on a thread about private education and I said I was opposed to the ideology. Someone came back and said "you're just jealous" and I thought what?? what the actual?? I thought this place had a reputation for smart thinking and interesting discourse.

And all these years later, it still irritates me just as profoundly. I shouldn't let it wind me up, but I wish people could be a bit more imaginative and just, well, smarter I suppose.

Do you genuinely think anyone is jealous of you?

Yes, exactly lottie.

There are great comps out there My local comp experience was of being surrounded by children of academics, doctors and teachers. We all assumed we'd go to uni, as did our parents and teachers. that's great - and if I still lived in Edinburgh the kids would go to state school as they are all good quality in the area I lived in. If the alternative was a school as bad as the one I went to then I would move heaven and earth to avoid it.

The posters saying it's about being unable to see others' choices as equally valid are spot on. There are plenty of things I don't do that others are really keen on and I'm sure vice versa. Im able to acknowledge that while my choices are good for me, they may not be best for everyone, is surely just being self aware?

But it is mostly better, to pretend otherwise is daft. I work in a private school and the year 2's and up have school iPads, beautiful grounds, fabulous food, tiny classes of 12-15

DD went to the village school. Each class had 30 iPads (from R up), they have a large 2 part playground, a huge field, a meditation
Garden, a forest school with wildlife pond, a trim trail, a climbing wall and a 'den'. They had 15 to 20 in a class when she was there (I think the current R has 28). Food I'll give you, it was standard school dinners, but other than that I cannot see how she could have got better at an independent?

I have a couple of friends who bore go on (and on, and on, and on...) about how absolutely fabulous their six bedroomed homes are, and their children's private education will give them such a head start in the job market, and how their husbands are so perfect...

... and all I can think is how empty and shallow their lives actually are. I'm not remotely jealous of them. I'm quite contented with my lot in life, overall and actually, the only thing I would change is my daughter's mental health issues. I'd make the same choices I have, all over again if I had to. If my children are going to have fantastic careers - great. Good for them, if they do. But I'd much rather they be happy than endlessly perpetuate the cycle of shallow, money-obsessed, materialism that pervades society.

I only hope that my friends realise one day that their children aren't accessories and their husbands? Really aren't so perfect, either - and that everyone else knows it.

Plunkette

It's not a great attitude to assume that everyone is lying when they say they'd make different choices to you.

I don't see it as lying necessarily. That's why I said what I think would happen with a free pass to indy school. There's a difference between affording it at the expense of other things (even a bigger pension pot) and really having the money to pay school fees without noticing it which is very, very few people.

I don't think people are lying or seething with envy and said that I've never said it in real life. I can't change my fairly cynical beliefs about human character though.

If you assume that your particular choices in life are the best ones and genuinely can't imagine anyone choosing differently given the opportunity you probably also assume that everyone else is desperately envious of you.

No. Of course I think my choices are the best but I think more of others than thinking them to be all-consumed with envy. When I hear people getting all cross and worked up about indy schools, I tend to think it's largely jealousy. Those who don't talk about it, I don't consider.

exLtEveDallas

I guess there's some mistake with your figures. Why would there be 30 iPads when classes are 15-20?

Resources go beyond iPads. Things like kilns, swimming pools, astro turf, library budget, cooking room and teachers simply being able to spend what they want to make the best lesson rather than working to a tight budget and making balanced decisions.

(Often) The best teachers. When you offer sate salary + 35% + other perks, you get large numbers of applicants allowing you to cherry pick the staff.

Guaranteed 15 maximum class size with one TA and one teacher per class.

Posting a list of 'my school has' would be rude, but it would be long.

"I think more of others than thinking them to be all-consumed with envy"

But not enough of them to think they might have principles. Right.

My dd goes to private prep and having an iPad there drives me mad.
Any idiot can use an iPad hencef their popularity.
If they all broke I certainly wouldn't be donating to replace. She learns nothing useful on it.
I agree with the jealousy thing. It is all big hair and white 4x4s here and I cringe everyday. But I must be jealous.

It's a bit daft to say that you learn nothing useful on an IPad. You can learn loads. My ds has done a lot of his GCSE revision on an IPad.

It's not the school but the parenting that makes a child the way they are. There are lovely children in both private and state schools and nasty children in both. Don't blame the schools its parents that show their children how to behave

volunteer seems to have met lots of lottery winners, to illustrate their point. How convenient is that. Yeah right.

I guess there's some mistake with your figures. Why would there be 30 iPads when classes are 15-20?

PAN is 25. They bought 30 for each class to ensure there was always enough should the school have a larger intake (like this years Reception class). Sensible idea I thought, rather than a maths error.

No they don't have a kiln/swimming pool/cooking room but they are a state Primary so unfortunately there isn't much call (or time) for classes 'out of curriculum'. They do have a library and a Thrive room though, which is sweet. Plenty of volunteers to help as well which is lovely for the village and builds a strong sense of community and stamps on any division between the haves and have nots. It's truly inclusive.

Blimey, they're out in force today, aren't they. Can't learn anything from an iPad?

Um, breaking news, the information you can find using an iPad is actually the same as from a desktop computer.

Pass the 🍿

I saw that response on a thread about paperboys being driven about in range rovers where OP had said they didn't like gas guzzling cars and the damage to the environment. Clearly people hadn't read the op as so many accused them of jealousy. I guess the response comes from a people's inability to understand that not everyone thinks like them.

Hmm, no doubt Volunteer has a very wide circle of acquaintances so would be in a position to observe all eventualities but, from the post above, might I raise the possibility of sample bias? If you know parents who use private schools, so see the newly enriched who move to join you, is it possible that you don't know about the newly enriched who don't?

To give another example entirely, my ideal car, in principle and practice, would be no car. Cars are an environmental disaster, a huge cause of death, injury and fractured neighbourhoods and they don't interest me per se. They are useful. So, we have one, for its usefulness, including DP being unable to do his job without one but have made choices to live somewhere where lots of things are within walking distance and often choose to use public transport. My aspiration, my 'perfect car' would be no car. So if I was to express any of the above in relation to some big, new or fancy car or the notion thereof (obvs wouldn't be rude to someone about their own choice, it's not nice and never productive), I wouldn't be 'just jealous'.

But, I think we are in a very privileged position to be able to choose to reject 'better stuff' based on our values, ideals and our own cost benefit analysis. Demonstrating a shift from being a 'developed' country to an 'over-developed' one perhaps. People in developing countries generally want more stuff - and cannot comprehend the idea of choosing to reject the newer, bigger, better - because, for them, the new stuff will almost always have a big impact on quality of life. For us, the choice is about what qualities matter in life.

But, I think we are in a very privileged position to be able to choose to reject 'better stuff' based on our values, ideals and our own cost benefit analysis

That's true. What's odd about cars particularly though is that they are seen by many as a status symbol. I have an 08 plate small car and people make judgements based on that. So when I say 'I don't want a nice car anyway' some may think I'm just jealous.

But then get onto education and I can afford to send my DDs to independent schools for secondary and we may do so. Local comp isn't that great tbh and I don't particularly want to move. So I guess when the ones driving around in their flash cars day that they are ideologically opposed to private education they may be accused of jealousy. It's a strange world because different people have different attitudes and priorities.

But yes, I am in a position of privilege having these choices. Interestingly as my car's a bit shite some people think otherwise though.......

I went to a rubbish state school in a deprived area. My dad was an unemployed alcoholic - we were hard up. I'm very lucky though because I was born with brains and determination - I think that's a bigger advantage than being born into a wealthy family that could afford private education. I got top grades, did really well at uni and have got to the top of my career. None of my colleagues has a background like mine - they are all privately educated (most are charming). I don't like to talk about my background because when I have done, I notice them feeling very uncomfortable, as if it is somehow a reproach to them, or I'm being chippy. In fact, I just felt isolated sometimes, and scared because I had no invisible cushion to fall back on. I've learned to keep my background to myself.

OP, I would suggest that if you are accused of being jealous of not entertaining private education or Dubai, your accusers may be jealous of (or confused by) you having ethics and living by them.

As an aside, ruthboros, I note your use of the word 'chippy'. I always think of this of a cheap way of others putting us in our place. Horrible.

I wouldn't go to Dubai if you paid me.

The trouble is that there are a lot of jealous people out there and, for some reason, private school winds them up more than anything. I've experienced it first hand since sending my kids to private school. The thing that annoys me the most is that lots of people disagree with many of the fundamental aspects of private school and moan if there is an attempt to introduce them into the state system. I chuckle every time I see a Facebook post complaining about SATs. At my son's independent school they have a week of formal exams every year from Year 1...when he gets to Year 6, he will have entrance exams for senior private school, 11 plus for state grammar, possibly his first GCSE and SATs. I won't be moaning. It's what I've chosen for him but please don't be envious of my kid's education when you wouldn't want it for your kids anyway.

it does bug me though almost to the opposite when people are maybe not jealous but (cant find word) when they complain of people spending money or being overly spendie...people will complain at them when I know I just know we'd all be spending like them if only we could.and in me I no I'm not jealous,not bitter(still cant find word but perhaps slightly saddened I cant spend similar.but some can be very cruel to those who can spend what they want.works both way though as some see it as ok to shove it in those les pirvalegd faces/

I do think there is a different jealous.that isn't horrible.the more sad jealous saddened that perhaps you don't have what others have.and that not a bad trait on you just a fact of yearning for a better life if only you could have what you see others having.

It's a quick way to dismiss an argument without having to provide a thoughtful response. It's quite immature really. In some circumstances they might be right but usually not ime.

Thank you Maireadplastic, you're spot on. One advantage of not going to private school is there is less pressure of expectation. I had none - anything I achieved came as a pleasant surprise to all concerned. The pressure to perform when kids know their parents are paying a lot for fees can be quite intense.

Indeed LoisW. And if people choose not to go to Dubai (or other places with appalling human rights records) or choose not to educate their children privately because they cannot support and would never fund social apartheid, to then be accused of jealousy is galling.
Some find it almost impossible to understand that other people's choices may be not governed by their own small lives but by a much bigger social and ethical context.