You're just jealous

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

AIBU to think that this is a very unintelligent way to deal with someone disagreeing with you?

When I first started on Mumsnet I was on a thread about private education and I said I was opposed to the ideology. Someone came back and said "you're just jealous" and I thought what?? what the actual?? I thought this place had a reputation for smart thinking and interesting discourse.

And all these years later, it still irritates me just as profoundly. I shouldn't let it wind me up, but I wish people could be a bit more imaginative and just, well, smarter I suppose.

Do you genuinely think anyone is jealous of you?

Anatidae you illustrate a well an important point on schools, that people are choosing between the specific schools available to them, perhaps informed by wider principles but, those principles cannot magic up a great state school (oh, free schools...).

My local comp experience was of being surrounded by children of academics, doctors and teachers. We all assumed we'd go to uni, as did our parents and teachers. Anyone in the sixth form who wasn't planning to was seen as a bit of a time-waster. Oxbridge entrants every year. No lack of any sense of entitlement or possibility - careerwise.

At the time, the local private girls' school had worse A-level results than my school. I viewed it as a less academic school.

Without getting bogged down in the schools thing, I'd just make the point that everybody is interested in things other than academic results when choosing schools. Obvious examples being values, opportunities and peers.

It is an example of differing tastes, that people's ideas of the values they'd like their children to develop, the opportunities they'd like to make available to them, the sorts of people they'd like them to be friends with, varies. Not wrong, or right, just different.

VolunteerAsTribute

I am not "fundamentally opposed" to private education but I question the assumption that it is always going to be better than the available state education no matter what.

We could have afforded (just) to send our DD to one of the local independent schools; however after research we decided not to as the state schools where we live are excellent. If we lived in an area where the state schools were less good then we would probably have come to a different decision.

Some friends and colleagues took the independent route convinced that it would have to be better. Perhaps tellingly they were all people who had been privately educated themselves.

I am still not convinced that their children did any better at the local independent than they would have in the state school. It is selective so is obviously taking only the brighter children to begin with. Children who cannot keep up with the work are asked to leave. Not surprisingly when exam results come out they are usually better than the state school results - but not by much. However, it seems disingenuous for the school to claim that those results are down to their excellent teaching when in fact the cohort of children they have would probably have done just as well at any half decent school. I have even known parents who hired a tutor in addition to paying school fees so that their children could keep up with the others. Yet still they sing the school's praises when they pass their exams!

I would prefer it if this didn't morph into a private/state education thread but somehow it has.

Oh well.

If I see people making "just jealous" comments I add them to my spreadsheet in the "thick and defensive" column.

A friend sent her 3 children to state primary schools but private secondary school, I've seen a massive change in their attitudes since they have been in private education and are now incredibly snobbish and patronising. No we dont envy them, my kids are more than happy and doing well in the local comprehensive, surrounded by their friends who all live locally and they've known since reception.

However this family also have a holiday home and I do envy that

We are really talking envy here rather than jealously aren't we

It's often used on threads about unfairness in extra-curricula opportunities in schools too. As in:

OP: Why do teachers choose the confident, outgoing children for roles in plays, sports teams, etc, when they're no better at these things than the quiet, unassuming children who don't push themselves forward, but quietly wait their turn?

Response: My child is one of the children you're complaining about - chosen for everything. It's not favouritism, though. Maybe you're just jealous.

A - Missing the point of the OP
B - What is their definition of favouritism?

"You're just jealous" generally means "I don't understand the issues"

Yes, Bertrand, that or even failing to understand that there are issues, or that 'issues' aka ethical questions, are something that a 'normal' person should entertain.

Or sometimes I really think it's 'I cannot comprehend that other people do not share my tastes and desires'.

I once told someone that I couldn't stand Piers Morgan (sorry, another thread made me think of him when I saw this). I was told that, well, sometimes people don't like it when someone's successful. Like fuck Don't think that's the reason I dislike Morgan!

"You're just jealous" is such a lazy, knee-jerk attempt at a response. In most cases it is as meaningful as "Yer mum."

The other phrase that gets trotted out all too often is "I seem to have touched a nerve." No, you idiot, you have just made an outrageous claim and people are simply informing you how stupid it was.

seafoodeatit

I'm no biologist, but isn't intelligence likely to be as inherited as other aspects of a being? Higher intelligence, self-motivation etc are likely to lead to more financial success meaning you're more likely to go to an indy school. You're more likely to marry someone from your social circle than outside of it, be that circle be created from geography, education, religion etc and therefore more likely to pass on these genes.

Survival of the fittest is still occurring. It's usually down to attractiveness to the opposite sex and financial stability and security is attractive.

ah that old chestnut

Not sure what you mean. I am happy to spend money to give my children a head start in life. I have no qualms, feel no guilt and had no internal torment over whether to do so. I'm a relatively principled person but couldn't care less about that anti independent school hand-wringers on MN. It seems that they don't much like me either so with our paths not crossing, we're all the better for it.

HoldBackTheRain

Did you actually cringe? Really?

It's strange that you assume I had a private education. Why is that.

Iwasjustabouttosaythat

You clearly have a chip on your shoulder.

JigglyTuff

Yes, you can avoid people like me and my children at sporting events, university, professional careers etc. Statistically, people like me are more likely to interview people like you when you want a job, but I hope you manage to tolerate us for that.

It's a shame that you benefited from your education but are holding your children back based on your 'principles' and bias. Either that, or it's a financial issue, circling back to the envy ...

Volunteer, I think the social aspect people are concerned about is that kids going to certain private schools will grow up to be selfish arseholes. smile

Christ, these are children that you are talking about.

VolunteerAsTribute Jesus don't you seem a peach.

Another variant is "you're just insecure" if you disagree with the porn industry. It is a really good way to sidetrack someone into defending themselves / their relationship rather than addressing the argument.

I think that some of the nastiest comments have been aimed at Volunteer actually. The way that some talk about children in private education is disgusting.

VolunteerAsTribute

You clearly have a chip on your shoulder

Please, please tell me you were being ironic. Chip on shoulder is nearly as tired and clichéd as jealous.

volunteer the numbers just don't back you up I'm afraid, the numbers of children that get into public/independent schools on academic merit
alone is pretty low, and of those schools that are academically selective the vast majority will come from feeder prep schools. It's fine to say you prefer that type of education, but spare the rubbish about it having anything to do with intelligence.

Shhhhhh wisteriainbloom!

They deserve it, what with their ability to buy choice for their children and their... um... Well, you know. Stuff.

I bet they're a Tory too.

It's amazing how many people say they were privately educated but oppose it and whilst the allude to being able to afford it, have decided against it for their children and spit bile at anyone who hasn't.

I object very strongly to children being criticised. That's why I hate the constant characterisations of state school children as idle, bullying, disruptive chair throwers. As people to be avoided at all costs. As people mumsnetters would do anyrhing to keep their children from.

BertrandRussell I have been on here since 2003 and have never once seen you object to the vile comments aimed at children in private education.

I rarely see the 'thick, rich, arrogant' comments challenged by many people actually.

To lay my cards on the table, I have a child in a grotty Sec modern, one in a grammar and a child with special needs who is in the independent sector.

Just remember that on both sides, these are children who have no say in where they are educated.

Volunteer yes I really did cringe, and the more you post the uglier you sound.

You always get it on threads where a relative is annoyed or not interested in a poster's children, especially if the relative is childless. "Maybe they are just jealous because they wish they had children".

I always think it is far more likely they simply don't like the posters children, or are not interested in them.

@Bertrand

So why not pull people up on comments like the one quoted below?

I think the social aspect people are concerned about is that kids going to certain private schools will grow up to be selfish arseholes.

I frequently do. I missed that one.