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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be disgusted about schools 1 minute silence

212 replies

PugnRoll · 25/05/2017 17:40

Extremely sensitive I know at this time....11am today the UK had a minutes silence in respect of the victims of Mondays attack, my dcs school included which I totally 100% support...what I don't support though was the schools stance on including the terrorist in their moment of silence, to pray & forgive him as it's" what God would have done" Hmm AIBU to be bloody disgusted, dcs know what he did was an evil & an abhorrent act something that wouldnt ever be forgiven.

AIBU to Think what the fuck were the teachers thinking?

OP posts:
eviethehamster · 25/05/2017 22:07

No to be forgiven you have to repent and be sorry. I think that would def cancel him out

No. This is only what the Bible says to sinners who are looking for forgiveness from God. You and I aren't God. It's not up to us (sinners) to forgive his sin. It's up to us to be compassionate and forgiving though. If you teach your kids not to forgive and to hate, you create a more hateful world. Teach your kids to love and forgive. Teach them to always assume greater complexity.

Tapandgo · 25/05/2017 22:10

fink op didn't say they were to ask God to forgive him, she said they were asked to do as God would do - forgive.
It's a hard doctrine of course.

Tapandgo · 25/05/2017 22:14

All those idiots preaching forgiveness crack on.....when it is your own children murdered. Until then shut up

Nothing is gained by hating - it absorbs your emotions and stops your grieving and moving on. It's not a soft or soppy option, it allows you to focus on who and what is worthwhile and to build a future.

ComputerUserNotTrained · 25/05/2017 22:19

Teach them to always assume greater complexity

Totally.

kalidasa · 25/05/2017 22:27

I was in Boston on 9/11 and went to a (packed) lunchtime mass that day. The priest asked us all to pray for those who had done it and their families as well as the victims and their families - of course he did. It was a very moving mass and I have never forgotten it.

Maxandrubyrubyandmax · 25/05/2017 22:31

But again catholic doctrine states that only god can forgive a mortal sin. It is not up to a bunch of school teachers to make the decision for God. So to those of you criticising the OP for sending her kids to an RC school without agreeing to forgive everything are missing the point of RC theology. As the scum was happy to stand next to an 8 year old and blow himself up and didn't shout at everyone he was carrying a bomb of be betting he wasn't seeking absolution in the final moments of his pathetic life. So I would think the teachers were not following catholic doctrine in telling the kids to forgive the scum. They should have explained that he was sent to eternal damnstion instead (cofe myself which could possibly have gone down the forgiveness route). Pity u can't buy indulgences any more guess Luther put paid to that!

ToastDemon · 25/05/2017 22:34

As a Christian the point is that you must forgive, and leave the judgement to God.

Fink · 25/05/2017 22:38

op didn't say they were to ask God to forgive him, she said they were asked to do as God would do - forgive.

Oh, I wasn't sure from the wording. In that case, I definitely do object. That's a distortion of Catholic doctrine and I'd be annoyed if my kids' Catholic school taught that:

It a) treats 'what God would have done' as though God didn't actually do anything so you have to talk about what we should do because God wasn't present
b) confuses forgiveness, mercy, peace, and repentance
c) confuses the roles of who should be forgiving someone and what for. What exactly are children who are not directly involved in the incident supposed to be able to forgive him for? Also, do they even have any concept of what it means to forgive someone who is dead?

So, all in all, I would not be worried about my child being exposed to the ideas that we pray for the guilty as well as the innocent (who, by definition, need more prayer) and that we are not appointed as the judge of anyone else's soul, nor would I mind this being included in a moment of prayer for the victims. But I would have had a problem with the very bad way this was worded, and would have written to the head to request that in future, school prayers were led by someone with a better grasp of Christian doctrine.

Tapandgo · 25/05/2017 22:53

......but it's a child's interpretation of what was said......and mums interpretation of what child said....

WanderingTrolley1 · 25/05/2017 22:57

Your child is on the wrong school if you're disgusted.

Ameliablue · 25/05/2017 22:59

I think they do this to avoid breeding more hatred.

pottered · 25/05/2017 23:01

I may be hopelessly woolly and liberal but no healthy sane person murders small children - somewhere along the line that's mental health system that's failed to spot a psychotic event?

In reality saying 'may God forgive you' doesn't really excuse you from your misdoings at all.

Fink · 25/05/2017 23:04

Yes, I mean obviously I would write with the caveat 'this is what dd said happened and I am a little concerned, obviously she may have misunderstood what Ms X said' ...

subtext: maybe Ms X could be more careful in her wording when she's addressing young children.

StarHeartDiamond · 26/05/2017 00:07

Isn't it the parents/family/friends of the wrongdoer who have something to forgive a murderer for? Why do/should the children "forgive", what are they actually forgiving him for? Confused what do they even think they should be forgiving him for? (Unless the school is one connected to one of the victims).

To be honest I feel the idea of forgiveness in this circumstance at this time sends a confusing message to children. Someone has done something very wrong, but almost instantly he should be "forgiven" (by them - is it their responsibility?) so, that's all right then.. the very wrong thing can't be that wrong if their authority figures ask them to instantly forgive.

I don't have a problem with forgiveness, but when it's out upon children to forgive something that they probably don't even know specifically what they are forgiving, or if they do have a hazy idea it's very much at odds with the sorrow being expressed at the same time for innocent victims.

Best to tackle separately, I think.

Chloe84 · 26/05/2017 00:16

Forgiveness is not just a Christian concept, it's an Islamic one too, and I think it exists in all religions. Here's a quote from the Quran.

To be disgusted about schools 1 minute silence
PickAChew · 26/05/2017 00:19

OK, so what is making a point of not forgiving the attacker going to fix?

The problems extend far further than the utterly atrocious actions of one radicalised young man. How did he become radicalised in the first place? Keep tracking back and you might eventually find a single individual to can point an angry wagging finger at. Or maybe not. This oh so stupid dickhead had probably been utterly convinced that he was doing the right thing, though. Meantime, somewhere in the background, some bigger dickhead keeps his hands and robes clean because he has brainwashed fervent young men doing his nihilistic shitwork for him..

The vulnerable (and yes naive and stupid) young ideologues who get their brains blown out for a rather warped cause probably aren't where the buck stops, here.

Fruitcorner123 · 26/05/2017 00:26

I don't see an issue with a Catholic school teaching forgiveness. I don't think today's minutes silence was the time for this though. The minutes silence was for the victims who shouldn't be remembered alongside the bomber. The school should have separated the two things.

Squishedstrawberry4 · 26/05/2017 00:29

Amazing Ted talk on forgiveness below. The first interview didn't sit very easily for me but the following interviews were very very powerful. One lady mentioned forgiveness as a means of gaining inner peace.

itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/ted-radio-hour/id523121474?mt=2&i=385349071

Teapot13 · 26/05/2017 01:04

Whether this person deserves to be forgiven under RC doctrine isn't really the point. Aren't we supposed to pray for sinners? Not just sinners that, in our personal view, "deserve" to be forgiven? That's the thing with forgiveness, BTW -- nobody deserves it!

Willyoujustbequiet · 26/05/2017 01:15

it's absolute nonsense to think you have to forgive instead of hate as hate eats you up etc....

bollocks.

I am perfectly capable of hating child murderers without dwelling on it or it interfering in my life in any way.

Unless you have lost someone in similar circumstances you should take your pontificating elsewhere.

makeourfuture · 26/05/2017 06:20

Unless you have lost someone in similar circumstances you should take your pontificating elsewhere.

My understanding of this is that of course we as people cannot forgive like God. Could we forgive those who crucified our son? Probably not.

But as humans we work towards forgiveness. The Essence of Grace is that we are all faulted. We are all sinners.And try as we might we will never reach perfection.

We won't get there, but we work towards it.

Teach them to always assume greater complexity

Of interest.

hackmum · 26/05/2017 08:03

StarHeartDiamond: "Isn't it the parents/family/friends of the wrongdoer who have something to forgive a murderer for? Why do/should the children "forgive", what are they actually forgiving him for?"

This goes to the nub of the matter for me. How can you forgive someone for a crime they've committed against someone else? It's nothing to do with you. I suppose if you're religious you could ask God to forgive them, but that's not what the OP said. It's up to the relatives and friends to "forgive" if they want, but I'm not sure even that has much meaning when the murderer is already dead.

StarHeartDiamond · 26/05/2017 08:08

Sorry just realised I put wrong doer instead of "person that has had wrong done to them", that's what I meant.

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2017 08:23

First time I've ever heard of anyone objecting to a Catholic school because it's too forgiving...............

MissEliza · 26/05/2017 08:31

I remember there was a bomb in Northern Ireland- Enniskillen I think- and there was a man who'd lost his daughter who said he forgave the bombers. We were watching this on the news and all said 'how?'My granny said very firmly 'because he's a Christian.' It was the first time I realised how deep my gran's faith went. It really made me think. I think forgiveness is difficult and requires strength but hatred just eats you up. It's a good lesson for children and if you don't get it perhaps you're in the wrong school.