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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be disgusted about schools 1 minute silence

212 replies

PugnRoll · 25/05/2017 17:40

Extremely sensitive I know at this time....11am today the UK had a minutes silence in respect of the victims of Mondays attack, my dcs school included which I totally 100% support...what I don't support though was the schools stance on including the terrorist in their moment of silence, to pray & forgive him as it's" what God would have done" Hmm AIBU to be bloody disgusted, dcs know what he did was an evil & an abhorrent act something that wouldnt ever be forgiven.

AIBU to Think what the fuck were the teachers thinking?

OP posts:
SauvignonBlanche · 25/05/2017 19:55

YABU

An RC school is bound to espouse RC values and that a very RC response, the killer will be judged by God, not us.

usershitloadofnumbers · 25/05/2017 20:00

you are aware that we are still on high alert and we are still target, don't you? If you are happy to believe that it's none of your concern, and has nothing to do with you, good for you. There's no lack of interesting and relevant documents, even on the internet, to clarify current events for you.

Coloursthatweremyjoy · 25/05/2017 20:01

Forgiveness isn't really about the person who hurts you. You forgive someone for yourself. Because hate, bitterness, anger and unforgiveness eat away at you, make you miserable and upset your life. People forgiving the bomber won't do him a jot of good now...it might help people to put him aside, mourn and come through though.

Whiskwarrior · 25/05/2017 20:02

I get that. But what's this 'fight' we're in?

I see people going about their business as normal.

Unless you're in the SAS, you're not in a fight.

JamieXeed74 · 25/05/2017 20:06

And that is why religion is so dangerous. Sick!

PerkingFaintly · 25/05/2017 20:07

I don't remember my Catholic schools teaching that forgiving people was conditional upon them repenting first.

In fact, much was made of "Father forgive them, they know not what they do", as Jesus said of his killers even as he hung dying on the cross. Which seems to contradict that idea that repentance must come first.

It's the first words of this that Provost Howard scrawled in charcoal on the still-warm stones of his destroyed cathedral, the morning after the Coventry Blitz, as someone has linked above.

Now I no longer believe, I'm no longer doctrinally required to forgive. But I'm afraid I agree with PP that if you send your DC to a Christian school you have to accept it's likely that this is what they will teach.

Raggydolly3 · 25/05/2017 20:09

No to be forgiven you have to repent and be sorry. I think that would def cancel him out

BoneyBackJefferson · 25/05/2017 20:15

usershitloadofnumbers

But none of that backs up why the Time for forgiveness is when the fight is over.

You have no idea of exactly who is being fought.

"Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love."

and because I can see where this is heading

"We believe in law and order. We are not advocating violence. We want to love our enemies. If I am stopped, our work will not stop, for what we are doing is right"

Martin Luther King

PerkingFaintly · 25/05/2017 20:22

Yes, BoneyBack, the requirement for forgiveness does not prevent one from fighting for justice.

There is no demand that we forget trespasses or pretend they haven't happened.

Christians aren't required to release all prisoners from jail, just because they've been forgiven. Particularly for Catholics, penance is part of the process of repentance and forgiveness.

Locallylost · 25/05/2017 20:26

What an insensitive title.

BewtySkoolDropowt · 25/05/2017 20:28

No to be forgiven you have to repent and be sorry. I think that would def cancel him out

That's only if you believe in the religious notion of being forgiven by god.

In real life, forgiveness doesn't come because the 'sinner' repents and is sorry. Forgiveness comes when the person that has been wronged chooses to let go of the hurt/anger/bitterness and moves on free of that burden. Sometimes the 'sinner' can be full of remorse and repentance, but the 'victim' is too hurt/betrayed/angry to forgive, and they continue to carry that with them.

Forgiveness can happen even when the 'sinner' isn't aware that they have done something hurtful. It can happen with the 'sinner' never knowing that they have been forgiven.

Willyoujustbequiet · 25/05/2017 20:32

All those idiots preaching forgiveness crack on.....when it is your own children murdered. Until then shut up.

JamieXeed74 · 25/05/2017 20:35

Please try and remember that god was able to forgive the whole of humanity the second time around first time around it was easier to drown the bastards . And all it took was the blood sacrifice of himself his son. So why shouldn't we ask school children to forgive a mass murderer a few days after the event. Its all part of gods plan. Hmm

Ohyesiam · 25/05/2017 20:46

Forgiveness benefits the "victim " not the perpetrator. Holding on to anger makes life painful. It's stressful. To forgive someone doesn't lessen the their crime, but it massively lessen the impact of carrying around anger.
This resonates more on an individual level, but it's a life enhancing skill. So regardless of whether the teachers were misguided or not , your kids have learned something valuable.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 25/05/2017 20:46

For the victims and their families and friends, it may be that forgiveness is part of the healing process. But if it is what some of them need to do, it will have to be when they are ready to do so. I believe it is wrong to try to pressure someone to forgive if they are not ready, or if it is not part of their healing process.

But I stand by my earlier comment that it was, at best, insensitive to pray for the bomber alongside his victims.

ComputerUserNotTrained · 25/05/2017 21:03

The bomber was 22. He wasn't the sharpest tool in the box, either. My heart doesn't bleed for him, but fuck me I can't help but weep that people can be manipulated in such a way that they'll blow themselves up whilst taking others (including children) with them.

For me, that's where the "forgiveness" would come from.

I'm an atheist btw.

ComputerUserNotTrained · 25/05/2017 21:04

But yes, it's not for me to forgive. I've not lost anyone.

Coloursthatweremyjoy · 25/05/2017 21:20

I wasn't suggesting that the victims should be told to forgive the bomber. That would be callous and not for me to judge. Lord knows I would struggle with it. I was only offering a thought on the nature of forgiving and it's purpose.

BoneyBackJefferson · 25/05/2017 21:20

Willyoujustbequiet

I am not going to preach forgiveness, but I will advocate against hate, Because hate doesn't solve anything.

Nor does saying that we are in a fight when it is impossible to say who we are fighting.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 25/05/2017 21:30

@Coloursweremyjoy - my comments on forgiveness were general musings - not directed at anyone in particular. I am sorry if you thought they were aimed at you, and I'm sorry if I upset you.

listsandbudgets · 25/05/2017 21:37

I find forgiveness a difficult thing to balance within the Christian faoth.

On one hand we have "an eye for an eye" on the other the Lords Prayer "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"...

Im torn as to whether the school was right. On balance I agree with you OP they should have restricted what they said to memory of the victims

Original poster
PugnRoll · 25/05/2017 21:44

I agree I could have worded the title different & I apologise for that.
Didn't intend for this to cause such a backlash, especially with the timing. It's really insensitive of me & I also apologise for that, me & dp had a discussion about it & I wanted others opinions but not to the detriment to others feelings.

OP posts:
Fink · 25/05/2017 21:54

I've RTFT, but I still don't understand from the OP whether they were being asked to pray for God to forgive the bomber (intercessory prayer for his soul) or for themselves to be able to forgive him? They're quite different things. I wouldn't have a problem with either, but I'm an RC and that's why I send dd to an RC school; I would be very upset to find the school had taught something against Catholic doctrine. I'm interested to know which it was though.

For people talking about CofE schools being the only local option: CofE and Catholic schools are run on different principles. In brief, CofE run schools primarily as a service to the community as a whole and thus offer a vaguely Christian education to anyone, they are deliberately light on doctrine because they are intended to be Christian ethos but open to all. RC run schools primarily to educate RC children, and will then offer spare places to anyone else who wants them on the understanding that it will be a Catholic education. This is why RCs have refused to open any free schools so far, because of the inability to select more than 50% of pupils and thus they would have to turn away Catholic pupils in favour of non-Catholics; CofE do run free schools and happily accept non-Christian children. LEAs will not allocate children who didn't choose an RC school to one, they will to CofE.

Whiskwarrior · 25/05/2017 22:03

All those idiots preaching forgiveness crack on.....when it is your own children murdered. Until then shut up.

Erm...no. I'll continue to preach love not hate, thanks very much.

Trollspoopglitter · 25/05/2017 22:04

Y