To ask I if anyone has changed their voting preference?

[bertiesgal]

I started off thinking I'd vote SNP but I've definitely settled on Labour.

I'm not pretending that any if the available options are perfect but I feel like every time Theresa May talks about Brexit and "stands up" to Europe (our closest ally and trading partner ffs), it's a bit like cringing as a racist out of touch relative starts spouting off at a party and praying to God they don't say anything too damaging for the sake of the family's reputation.

As for strong and stable....

However, I can't pretend that Labour are much better, I just know that their view of society chimes more closely with mine.

I don't want to start a bun fight, I just want to gauge how dramatic this Tory landslide is going to be or if there's still some hope....

Dons hard hat and awaits flaming!

Always voted Labour. Not this time. Cannot in all conscience put Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell in charge.

Bertie; I'm no way rich, but Tm has not said she will make us all pay for our health care or education. This is all based on assumption due to some recent cutbacks. You can't base your voting on what the opposing parties say will happen; they all have their own agendas, obviously. If her manifesto stated that the nhS was going to be abolished and we were all going to pay for private schooling, then obviously you would base your vote on that. But it doesnt.

Of course TM hasn't put privatising the NHS on her manifesto, it would be suicide. Doesn't mean it isn't happening. Hunt wrote a book about it! Watery, how is TM, boris johnson and david davis a better proposition? A woman who accused police officers of crying wolf when they said police cuts would lead to more threat to our security, a woman too scared to debate corbyn but thinks she will lead brexit, davis who got so pissed he tried to fuck a russian spy and had to be forcibly removed from her, boris who is, well boris!!

Thing is the evidence is all out there but you have to find it yourself. The manifesto is part of the picture but not the whole story. Weirdly the billionaires who own our newspapers gloss over the facts about the tories, especially since TM agreed to drop the levison enquiry.

TM dropped even further in my estimation when she refused to the debates - she obviously realized she wouldn't come out well and loose even more votes.

live like you we're in the category of people who are doing OK but I genuinely feel like things are stretched to the very maximum in schools, the NHS, the emergency services and local government. The continuing mantra of efficiency savings has meant that there is no slack in any of these services for a crisis, withdrawal of services wherever possible and chronic underfunding in others.
Some of these cuts have delayed impact so you won't feel it for years.

Live,

The NHS is an exceptionally efficient system where health expenditure is 9.87% of GDP compared to 16.91% in the US. We have fewer doctors per patient (2.8/1000) compared to Germany (8.2/1000) and France (6.2/1000). We have also lost 12,634 beds since Cameron became PM in 2010. That amounts to 100 beds per every hospital trust in England.

We on the front line have seen this crisis looming for years now. We have been alienated by a health secretary who wrote a paper on the need for privatisation of NHS and has at every turn blamed frontline staff for issues out with their control.

Austerity will (and is leading) lead to such underfunding that the situation in healthcare/education etc will become so dire that we will be begging for privatisation.

I wish people could see what is happening under the Tories and how it will affect every single one of us.

Brexit has made it even easier for anyone wanting to distract from what is happening in these areas.

However, do I think Corbyn is the solution? I don't bloody know....

I think you're right, you don't base your voting on what the manifestos say only; you base your voting on your core values. If your core values are "every man for himself", then vote conservative. If your values are more that society together can work for greater equality then vote for either lib dem or labour. Please don't think that the conservatives aren't out to destroy the NHS, they are, they are after a model more akin to that in the states where those that can pay do and those that can't pay have a very much poorer experience and life expectancy, that's the reality of market forces. I personally don't go for that. I'd like our society to help those in need.

Also, overall I think we've all remained respectful of each other's opinions on this thread.

It makes such a difference and it makes it much easier to see where other people are coming from.

Well done all of us so far !

Theresa can't cope with a debate, and she can't cope with a public meeting. She can't do a small group in a toothpaste factory, and she certainly can't cope with a crowd.

I can understand why she doesn't want to be compared to Corbyn.

Exploded; but at least Tm isn't making promises she can't keep on this. Corbyn is offering it all in spades, but can't provide the full costings on how these promises can be delivered on - which is typically Labour tbh. The figures just don't add up. He's a desperate man who is saying everything we want to hear, but I just don't trust him. How can you put your confidence in a man who is happy to have Diane Abbott standing alongside him in Government as Home Secretary if he wins on June 8th? The woman was an absolute embarrassment in recent interviews - can you trust a man's judgement if he allows an important role like Home Secretary to sit with her? I've based my decision on everything; read each and every manifesto, listened to the party leaders and looked at their choices in senior government roles, and I am going with Theresa May this time.

God, I am so bloody patronising-it looked less Primary one teacher in my head

hi happy

the labour manifest contains thorough detailed costings. You might not like them, you might want to pick over and argue about them.

The conservative manifesto doesn't contain ANY.

You can believe in blind faith. Or not.

It always make me laugh as well when people say how will we pay for NHS/ schools etcetc. We are a rich country. We have choices. At the moment we put a lot of money(£160billion!) into trident. Worth it???

Live I agree about Abbott. I don't think any of the choices we have before us are particularly appetising but I cannot in good conscience vote Tory.

They are getting away with so much incompetence.

The main thrust of their argument is "look over there, they're worse".

Honestly, they were in complete disarray post Brexit but Labour chose to completely implode so suddenly the Tories became the safe option.

Utter madness the whole thing. Who knows when this will all settle down!

We all agree that Diane abbot was an embarrassment. I would argue that TM was also an embarrassment on the so-called dementia u-turn. Also what about Michael Fallon yesterday. They all make gaffes. Judge the parties on their policies surely.

If your core values are "every man for himself", then vote conservative. If your values are more that society together can work for greater equality then vote for either lib dem or labour.

You really think it is that simple?

I know some extremely selfless Tories and extremely selfish Labour voters.

Some people you could stick a rosette on a carrot and they will always vote for it as that's what they have always done.

Many people however aren't like that. Most elections are about swing voters.

I did used to vote with my heart when younger, but I guess over the years you start to realise it doesn't work, and a lot of politics isn't about making the country a fairer place, its just a power fight with politicians promising the world, but rarely delivering. We have had Labour in Government many times over the decades, but I can't see that there has been any real improvements. It's amazing how potential Prime minister's who claim they are working for the working classes and disadvantaged can eventually sell their souls to the devil, and change into the very people they have apparently spent their lifetime criticising. Power and money can change the ideals of the best of us it seems.

the labour manifest contains thorough detailed costings. You might not like them, you might want to pick over and argue about them.

The thing is there is no point in them if they aren't going to work. They have been pulled apart by the IFS.

Maybe it should go back to the old days were no one provided costings?

I don't know what the answer is though.

piglet, we are complex people I don't think it's always that simple, but for me I have to vote for a party that is in tune with my values. That is not to say there are no conservatives of moral integrity; however the core proposition of the party is not to look after those who are vulnerable, while surely that is closer to the socialist ethic? Nothing is that straightforward - where I live though it is a very clear choice - our sitting conservative MP is firmly of the every man for himself ethic, she was exposed in the expenses scandal for claiming living expenses for a flat her daughter lived in and she did not.

TM dropped even further in my estimation when she refused to the debates - she obviously realized she wouldn't come out well and loose even more votes.

She should have done it.

However Corbyn should have also. He doesn't get a free pass just because she didn't. He also chose not to attend.

Live I feel like I'm picking on you and I don't mean to, it's just that what you're saying interests me because I think that we want the same things just have a different idea as to how we can achieve them.

Labour achieved so much in its time in government.

Far too many achievements to list here but a quick google and you'll be reading for hours.

I protested the Iraq war and I've not always voted Labour but I still think they were an incredible force for good.

Ah right that's a slightly different slant if it is about people rather than policies. I see (at first hand) what's happening in public services. I see the fragility, the gaps and the compromises and know that the Conservatives already have plans and policies in place for deeper cuts continuing for 3 more years at least. They hand down budget cuts with no interest in how the targets will be achieved.
I see what's happening now and it needs to change.
I don't particularly like Dianne Abbott but I wouldn't let one person change my vote.

Corbyn and May should both be attending the live debates. Neither has done so, and in my opinion their collective absence doesn't reflect well on either of them.

Nothing is that straightforward - where I live though it is a very clear choice - our sitting conservative MP is firmly of the every man for himself ethic, she was exposed in the expenses scandal for claiming living expenses for a flat her daughter lived in and she did not.

Here has in the past has been a Labour strongholds with MPs who have been in parliament for many years. People would vote Labour no matter what. At elections we used to go to other areas to canvass as these were a shoe in.

However today is very different. You never see the MPs. They don't live near by.

These local seats are extremely likely to turn Tory this time. They want different representation and tbh have performed better in hustings. They live near by. Are seen out and about.

You and I may not agree with them but I can see why people want that change and to feel represented.