to ask how most of our mothers coped?

[ItalianScallion]

I was born in the 70's. My mother was a SAHM and there were three of us kids. My father worked night shifts.

The youngest of us was born when I was four and the oldest was 7. My mother got us up, took us to school, took us to after school activities and sports whilst maintaining a ridiculously clean home, and doing all the laundry etc with no help or family support.

My DH has a similar upbringing except his mother and father were living abroad and travelled to several different countries to live because of the nature of FIL's work. My MIL worked nights and so they would literally hand over the kids to each other as one came home and the other went to work.

I feel that we were all raised pretty decently and I have a huge amount of respect for my parents and PIL.

Which brings me to my AIBU to think that we are getting softer? My mother and MIL shake their heads in disbelief when they hear of mothers who SAHM, have a nanny/au pair and a weekly cleaner and still talk about how they're not coping.

Don't get me wrong, parenting is a hard job but it seems that popular parenting ideas and methods are allowing us to make rods for our own backs.

Please understand I'm not referring to women with PND or any MH issues. This is MN so I know I'll be flamed by people with their anecdotes of difficult babies and their specific struggles, and I agree that there will always be exceptions to the rule. Still, I can't help but feel that we don't 'just get on with it' the way our mothers did.

I think the big difference and what makes parenting really hard is the amount of emotional work that parents need to do.

I'm not sure when the tide changed but I've heard so many accounts of it being normal to treat babies and children in the early 70s in ways that we would consider neglectful if not abusive.

Teeny tiny babies were left to cry day and night, often hungry as they were fed on schedule, left alone in prams to cry at the bottom of the garden, in the garage, down the hall so no one would have to hear the nuisance.

Small toddlers were penned, older toddlers tied to the tree out front.

Hitting children was normal and (as with all domestic violence towards children) seems to have been more for the purpose of the frustrated parent letting off steam, even when cloaked as 'discipline'.

Great that the kitchen surfaces shone and that daddy's slippers were nicely warm and toasted for him when he came home, but at what cost?

Of course there would have been some sensitive parents who did a really good job and didn't inflict too much psychological harm but let's not glorify the era and it's parenting practices and crow on about how well they did. The sh*t they left is still rolling down hill and has a massive on many lives today.

Isn't depression endemic these days? How many people do you know with anxiety and MH problems? Research is showing that the kind of parenting we are doing these days (i.e. engaged, supportive and not neglectful) insulates predisposed children to a certain extent whilst previous practices would have been a catalyst.

I find this quite accurate.

And what 53 said - why don't we compare ourselves to how our dads had it? I work full time, but nobody says in the evenings 'Oh she worked so hard the whole day, don't disturb mummy when she's trying to relax with her newspaper'.

I agree with the lower expectations she thing.
My mum played out from age 3, in the 50's
She had proper dinners at school so her mum would only have to give her Heinz tomato soup for dinner.
Even when n the 80's when I was a child, I was out playing with my siblings at 3, by age 5 I was riding round the block on my bike, popping back only for lunch and dinner.
I had about 3 outfits because there wasn't such thing as George Asda or primark, so less washing, we didn't get homework till secondary school either.

There is a lot more expected of us mums today, they're forever changing the goal posts of what a good parent is as well.

Born in the 1950s to young parents, Dad in the services and away for two years at a time, Mum was a paediatric nurse before we were born. We lived 200 miles from the closest family in a small village, so no local support. When Dad was away, mum had the car but when he was working in the UK, she didn't, and she didn't return to work until DSis was at boarding school. She did her own housework and gardening and volunteered for the family planning clinic.

I think the big differences are that children were expected to do more on their own, including going to school. Boredom was regarded as normal, as TV was only on for a few hours daily, only two channels. Local phone calls were free: DM would often spend evenings talking to a friend, who was also at home alone, for three or four hours. The butcher and bakers' vans called twice a week; milk came in bottles, the shop delivered, and if you didn't have a washing machine (we did from 1964-ish, so out of nappies) there was a laundry service for household linens and stiff collared shirts. I do remember our horizons widening enormously by the 70s (my teenage years).

It was very different, but not better or worse.

Katharina, I saw this too and it's one of the things that started the conversation among my friends.

The technology aspect has come up quite a bit too. We have more access to others to compare, more knowledge of nutrition and psychology and as a result are probably much harder on ourselves.

Comparison is the their of joy and technology is the thief of time

*thief of joy, sorry.

I walked (on my own or with my friends) to all after school activities at primary and secondary. My mum looked after my younger brother.

In don't think life was harder for SAHM mothers in the 70s at all. They may have been less likely to have a cleaner (although mine did) but standards were generally lower. With less cars, children played outside with much less supervision than today from a young age. I think I played out in the streets from about 4. Clothes etc and other things were not washed as often either. I think that nowadays parents make more of an effort to do things with their children and mentally stimulate them as well as there is more of an awareness that this can make a difference to how they do academically etc in the future.
I remember being very bored a lot of the time which is not something my own children complain about.

My grandmother had it tougher with four kids on her own (grandfather stationed in the Far East) but she trusted people far more than we do now ( on train journeys she used to leave the baby with a stranger - usually a soldier if she could find one as she trusted them - if she had to take the others to the loo!) Motherhood is more stressful now partly as we are taught to trust no-one and rely only on ourselves.

The way parenting is sold nowadays, the idea of 'ignoring' a baby like that is pretty frowned upon

I wonder if there's too much attention and pampering, and too little letting them be bored or making their own entertainment out of simple things these days??

If you had several kids and a house to look after without all the modern equipment, you simply didn't have time to spend with your kids every minute of the day. They had to entertain each-other or themselves. Mothers had their house to run, fathers had their job to done (usually longer hours and more days than now). (Yes, I'm being very stereotypical, but that's how it was with my and my family/friends).

My memories as a child are of spending hour after hour reading alone in my room. I used to save my pocket money and spend it on a new book. My OH says his childhood memories are playing on his bedroom floor with lego or matchbox cars, and not huge amounts of either! On good weather days, it'd be out on our bikes or scooters or playing in the street/school fields. It really was a matter of passing time and avoiding boredom with whatever you had to hand or whoever you could find. But in both our cases, our parents weren't there to entertain us - we had to do that ourselves!

Sorry to say it, but today, children expect too much entertainment and constant attention which just sucks the time away from parents. You can't avoid it because of peer pressure.

I can see why you think that in your case, but I suspect my house would be a lot cleaner if I was able to SaH.

Instead we have to do all that plus work....

fathers had their job to done (usually longer hours and more days than now)

That's certainly not my experience. When I was a child most fathers worked a 9-5 Monday to Friday, not too long a commute. My DH, and my friends partners often work away, or leave the house at 7am and home at 8pm due to long hours and long commute.

I don't agree at all that there is too much attention and pampering nowadays. I think giving a child attention and stimulation is much more important than a pristine house. The fact that some mothers may not have had time to do things with their children doesn't mean it is a good thing.

I think we are very child centred these days. My mum is too kind to say it out loud but I know she quietly thinks it's bonkers that we take kids to baby sensory, baby massage, baby yoga, baby signing, baby mandarin etc etc from weeks old.

This is true but interestingly the fundamental basics are lacking.

One of my friends took her baby to a multitude of classes from a few weeks old but the kid is now well over 3 years old and still in nappies simply because the mother doesnt bother potty training.

It seems ridiculous that she goes to a pre school and a multitude of classes now and from a few weeks old but when I was out with the other day the kid stood and shit it's nappy in a coffee shop and her mum took her to baby change in Mothercare. Im surprised she even fits on the change table anymore as its meant to be for babies.

She goes to school and all the classes but still shits herself. I mean at nearly 3.5 start with the basics.

GETTING you make a very good point.
I often wonder how the hell my grandparents coped in the War. I know enough about the realities of the Home Front to know it wasn't all rosy and singalongs down the Underground.

Just how the hell did they do it? There is a bit of a trend to look back on rationing as not much more than a healthy diet but it must have been terribly hard.
What if you lost your ration books in a raid? What if your kids lost a coat or a shoe?
All the stress of not knowing your OH was safe or what might happen to you and the kids.
And having to send your children away to strangers knowing you wouldn't be able to visit and might not see them for years.

Christ those women were heros.

Children were not ignored to the point of neglect (unless they were neglected) roomster.
If they were we would have seen much bigger rates of developmental delay and asfaik there is nothing to suggest that.

I think the difference was that children were expected to fit in with the family routine.
You were given a pot and pan to bang while mum cleaned the kitchen. You came shopping and socialised with all the shoppers and shop keepers.

Now days you have parents stalking childminders to make sure they are not taking them to Asda instead of stimulating them and if 'horrible old ladies' so much as smile at a baby there is a thread in AIBU about it.

I cannot understand why people take their non delayed, non disabled children to sensory sessions and why they pay £££ for music therapy for 4 month olds.

Maybe I can. Mothers have been made to feel that if you are not rushing around freaking out that your child is not doing enough and developing enough, you must be doing it wrong.

You cannot force a child's development. You can only support it.

They really were heroes my grandad didn't go to war he was a miner but he died in 1953 my gran had 7 children at home varying ages down to a baby it must have been bloody hard work

HA stalking childminders that made me laugh it is funny cos it is true , friend of mine started minding when our dc were 5 15 years later she has given it up recently because the expectations of parents was to high she couldn't manage these expectations which is a real shame.

Someone used the term 'benign neglect' earlier. It sums it up beautifully.

My mother was a great 70s mum who never even thought it was her job to play with her children. She loved us but she would no more think of sitting down on the floor to entertain toddlers than she would fly to the moon. We played out on the street or back garden, we entertained ourselves, we stayed out of the way.

We had virtually no homework in primary school and when we did, we certainly got on with it ourselves without supervision.

We also had situations where I was at brownies and my brother at judo in different places, the times would overlap so one of us would wait outside the church hall for 25 minutes waiting for her to collect us. No supervision, no problem. We were under 10. Mums and Dada don't tend to do this today either, unless hey have made a deliberate decision to let their children be "free range".

*GETTING you make a very good point.
I often wonder how the hell my grandparents coped in the War. I know enough about the realities of the Home Front to know it wasn't all rosy and singalongs down the Underground.

Just how the hell did they do it? There is a bit of a trend to look back on rationing as not much more than a healthy diet but it must have been terribly hard.
What if you lost your ration books in a raid? What if your kids lost a coat or a shoe?
All the stress of not knowing your OH was safe or what might happen to you and the kids.
And having to send your children away to strangers knowing you wouldn't be able to visit and might not see them for years.

Christ those women were heros.*

I imagine knowing that everyone was in the same boat helped somewhat. My Nana used to say it just seemed normal because everyone was going through the same thing.

I had my first in 71 and second 3 years later. I was a teenager when I had the first. I thought being a SAHM was a luxury and wished I could do it. Working, no car, trailing baby and toddler on the bus, no disposable nappies, no washing machine, crucially no money. Well actually we saved like mad until we bought our first house when I was 20, it was a 2 up 2 down with no heating, no double glazing, rising damp and wet rot. We thought we had done brilliantly and were a bit shocked when my mother started crying when she saw the house.

I was young, healthy and wanted the best for my kids so I worked hard and DH worked even harder, 60 hr week for him and he hardly saw the kids during the week for the first few years.

I wouldn't recommend it, my granny used to say she hated it when people said hard work never killed anyone, she would say it never did them much good either. I'm glad my kids have an easier life.

A lot of expensive baby classes are scams and mothers are easy prey. A well-tended public playground where the whole community congregates would be better.

I imagine knowing that everyone was in the same boat helped somewhat. My Nana used to say it just seemed normal because everyone was going through the same thing.

I once asked my Grandma about the war, when I was doing it at school. In my naivety I thought it must've been something of an adventure, but she soon put me right. She was 26 in 1939 when war broke out, and she had my aunt in 1941. She told me it was terrible and that she put off having my mum until 1948 because she said she could never have managed to get two DC safety to the bomb shelter quickly enough. She was tiny - only 4'11" and about 7 stone, so one DC was all she felt she could carry. Women in wartime were heroes, even the ones just at home, like she was, raising a DC with bombs falling on the city where she lived.