Dh won't let me put a Labour poster up in the window.

[GreenHairDontCare]

He is a Labour voter. But he doesn't want the neighbours knowing how we vote, as it's none of their business.

I did say I could put a note on it saying 'not DH' but he still said no.

He's a very private person generally to be fair, but usually lets me get my own way and he won't budge on this one.

WIBU to put it up during the day and take it down again before he comes home everyday?

I'm also lying bed in a house I own with a full tummy. No cashmere socks though because socks in bed is just wrong.

I have no government assistance, either. Zilch. You're contradicting yourself and your link contradicts you further.

Your projecting your own stigma and prejudice onto the term underclass. As i said before I'm from an underclass (although i generally use the term working class as most people arent familiar with the former) family and proud of it. I see no shame in the term nor reason to be offended by been labelled with it.

Read abit closer 'The underclass is located by a collection of identifying characteristics, such as high levels of joblessness, out-of-wedlock births, female-headed households, crime, violence, substance abuse, and high school dropout rates.

Yes you might be culturally middle class.You may live in a cul-de-sac, read the Guardian and enjoy wine instead of cider or larger. However economically speaking on an individual scale at least (as opposed to a household scale) if you are unemployed and recieving government assistance for whatever reason you more closely fit the economic class of underclass. Although as I said before any attempt to macroscopically analyse how society operates is always going to be generalistic and fluid due to the sheer numbers of individuals involved.

Someone asked me to clarify my comments on class systems and I replied with my view based out of mainstream study of economics and sociology. If you don't like it tough, I don't get paid to educate you in sociology and economics and I certainly don't want it as a hobby.

Rudeness is very lower class

Ah Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge.

greenhairdontcare

The wiki article is more focused on the cultural aspects of the underclass however it does give the economic characteristics of the underclass as well, I was speaking in strictly economic terms. You can be culturally one class and economically another.

Joffreys well if your not getting financial assistence from the government then I am presuming you are funded by a partner? In which case you would be considered whatever class they are. In which case your not underclass anyway.

I am not contradicting myself at all and if you really feel I am please point it out. You have thrown a bitchfit because I have used an established sociological term (one which has been around since the 1960s and used by countless numbers of professional social scientists) which you do not like because you have projected your own stigma and prejudice onto it. Again get over yourself.

In this circumstance I think it's not okay OP.

Like it or not, a statement on a house will give the impression that it speaks for the household. Your DH doesn't want to advertise politics in his window. That's not unreasonable and in some places is positively wise.

There are plenty of other far more valuable things you could do which wouldn't drag your DH into publicising or appearing to publicise his politics.

'Not DH' is even worse. That would give the impression that he's a Tory voter or otherwise right leaning to be frank. Nothing wrong with that per se, but as he's a Labour voter you'd be doing him even more of a disservice by this than by advertising his Labour leanings.

Funded by a partner?

Seriously, fuck you!

I have a job, halfwit.

I can't agree with people when they say "voting is a personal thing" with regards to people not discussing politics. It fucks me off. All the stupid, offensive bullshit people talk about and we're meant to be all offended when people talk about shit that matters? Put your bloody poster up and don't listen to dick heads who act like expressing a political opinion is the most offensive thing a person can do. Let's just all talk about strictly come dancing or whatever bullshit's on the tele and ignore the education, health care and housing crisis.

TrueColours

I think you will find in general for scientific articles wikipedia is a pretty good source, particularly as much of it is referanced and you can trace it back to its orginal sources.

But tbf my intention of linking to the wiki article was to prove that underclass was a well established sociological term for those who wanted to take offence at my use of it and nothing really more.

More feined offence, you really are a sanctimonious prat.

THEN YOU ARE NOT UNDERCLASS TO BEGIN WITH SINCE YOU ARE NEITHER JOBLESS NOR RELIANT ON GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE A DEBATE ABOUT THE UNDERCLASS ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES.

Is that clear enough for you?

Omg rale just calm down

But YOU SAID underclass was people earning less than 17k a year!

Ps I'm 'funded' by my husband and a bit of ESA. So which is it? Am I underclass or not, according to you?

Theresa May was in my constituency today. Got a lot of opposition.

My mum scared our candidate off when she came to our door, challenging her on the NHS. My dad has voted Tory once or twice in the past, but is Labour now. My mum has ensured that. My part of the constituency is quite solid Tory (the council wards are always Tory, by some distance), but there are quite a few Labour signs out, with European flags too - in fact Brexit might keep the Labour MP (who has a 230 majority) in as she is totally opposed to it.

Put the sign up anyway, it reflects your opinion.

Have you read your posts?

You listed a load of stuff which you said made people the underclass, earning under 17K, I was among them.

Then posted a link to back up what you said, except it didn't back up what you said.

Weirdo. You just made shit up and assumed no one would read you link.

MN is strange tonight.

This is a seat that could go on June 8th. It's like Labour can't be bothered to try and retain it.

Not the case I don't think, they just have far less money than the Tories. I live in the most marginal constituency in London and we've had 8 Tory leaflets, 3 visits from Tory activists including the candidate herself and only one Labour leaflet. They need to keep it but they do not have the resources the Tories do.

I am calm, I just really dislike people who like to take offence at any little thing, especially when it is their ignorant misunderstanding of science. And I really hate people who try and twist and misinterpret my words to try and make out I am classist when you'd struggle to find a bigger advocate for the class of people I come from.

It reminds me of those Science Must Fall idiots who believe Western science is racist and must be dismantled.

Underclass is an accepted sociological term for those economically at the bottom of society. If people don't like it, create your own class analysis and name it the 'fairies and princesses class' if it suits your sensitivities better.

I stopped taking @RALE 's posts seriously over a page back. I have spent half the past 10 minutes laughing at them to be honest. The disturbing thing is that she actually believes the nonsense and bile that she is spouting.

You'd think the fact that not a SOUL on this thread agrees with a thing she is saying would give her a clue that she is talking tosh.

As you were.

Night night all.

People are getting a little emotional over the term "underclass", I am surprised people seem to have not come across this before. I grew up on a council estate on the outskirts of a big city. 20 years ago my mother explained the class system to me. I understood that at the time my mum didn't work, and my dad worked full time, we were working class. When my dad was made redundant and my mum was struggling on a part time wage with no savings, we were underclass, when my dad opened his own business and it had a turn-over of over 500k a year, we were middle class.

This is a very fluid things in my experience and as I joke with my sister often, us white English folk don't half like to put people in boxes, although we detest being put in them! Its all a big joke, can't you see that? The class system is a big joke and should be treated as such. There are those that take it seriously and think it actually means something, these people I like to put into the category of "dick heads!" Again... I joke... Really, you shouldn't let it bother you.

I read Rake's list and laughed with a "Wohooo!" Finally upper middle class! Go me, with my massive debt, no savings and living in rented.

I'm moving around those 'classes' with alacrity.
Whicheans they're socio-economic groups and not class.

As for the poster... I also live in a Tory safeseat... I will be voting Lib Dem as labour do very poorly in this area, and lib dems do slightly better. So the only way to attempt to get rid of Tory is to vote Lib Dem. However, I would not put a poster up in my window because in an area like this, it would only create friction with the neighbours. However, I will happily debate it with anyone who asks my views.

Really think it would be wrong of you to put up the poster if your DH is against it. The VOTE poster is a very good idea though.

I said the figures were generalist estimates that were liable to regional differences such as cost of living. I have also said repeatadly that class analysis is a fluid concept that cannot be rigidly applied to all individual cases due to the sheer numbers of individuals involved in a society (60 odd million for British society).

Why have you changed your angle of attack? First of all it was the term underclass now it is my description? I thought calling people underclass was disgusting? Or would you off been happy with me using the term as long as the estimated figure was under your salary?

The very first characteristic used on that wiki article is joblessness and poverty. Joblessness and poverty generally equals a requirement for government assistance.

You would not be considered underclass yet you have tried to act personally offended by a word which shouldn't be considered shameful at all...why is that?

I would never vote Lib Dem (or never will when I'm old enough). The Lib Dems are horrendous misogynists.

The Lib Dems will also never get into power alone. I also don't trust them over what they did when they jumped into bed with the tories last time, however, my choice is to vote for the Tories, vote against the Tories or throw it away on a non-starter.

I am just hoping and hoping that there won't be another Tory-Lib Dem coalition.

You can ignore the class system but that does not mean it does not exist. If we never mentioned it again they'd still be people at the top of society and people at the bottom.

Throughout history, throughout every developed society including non capitalist ones. It is there.

I think the best way of solving issues within the bottom classes and improving social mobility is by acknowledging the socioeconomic divisions within our society instead of trying to ignore the elephant in the room.

I'd even rather vote Tory than vote Lib Dem I hate the misogynist Lib Dems that much.