To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

Hip hip hooray! Definitely 3 cheers from me Juliet x

The labour manifesto isn't fully costed

Which of the policies do I prefer Labours

But I shall not vote for labour while he is leader (stated reasons why many times) and by voting labour I support him being leader for the party and once again leading a pathetic opposition the sooner he is gone and back on the back benches the better

The labour manifesto isn't fully costed

Examples please

Schools are desperately worried about how they will staff and organise free breakfasts for entire school. It sounds like a gimmick or some adviser's idea given that toast is cheap. I have seen three headteachers posting on Facebook about this.
But then the conservatives have a history of u-turns. They have already started to back down on the social care issue a day after issuing the manifesto. What else will they change when in power?
Frankly, it's 88 pages of waffle.
88 pages! Yes, I read it. Do you realise that 5 billion pounds extra to schools over 5 years amounts to less than £350 per school per year?
Jeremy Corban is vilified by the press and apparently by some members of his own party. However you have to consider how much the media exploit this. They are big financiers who have more to lose from Labour. I daresay not all conservatives adore Theresa May but as so much of the media is Tory backed this isn't reported. Read both manifestos, decide with your heart for the majority and don't vote on personality...

If you have ever heard Jeremy corbyn speak or know anything about him, he tries to promote peace with everything that he says and does - voted against Iraq war, campaigned against apartheid etc, has always been on the right side of history. The right wing media is becoming worried that his message is getting out there and appealing to people (the rich media moguls do very well under the Tories of course) so they are rolling out the same old nonsense about the IRA, Corby has said clearly that he does not condone any violence. This is what he actually said in the interview. This is a non story dragged up to smear Jeremy Corbyn because he is gaining power poularity, do not let yourself be fooled:

JEREMY CORBYN: Look, bombing is wrong, of course all bombing is wrong, of course I condemn it.

On the subject of the IRA, Google Maria Gatland, Tory councillor in Croydon, she was an active member of the IRA. No word on that one in the right wing media.

On the subject of the IRA, Google Maria Gatland, Tory councillor in Croydon, she was an active member of the IRA. No word on that one in the right wing media.

A local councillor vs someone who wants to lead the country.

Are they in any way comparable?

Then vote for anyone other than Tory enthusiasm and help make a strong opposition even if it is made up of multi parties. Hang on a minute an opposition that was made up of all the other parties who can agree fully on what they want together isn't such a bad idea. Two heads (or several) could serve everyone's needs in the country.

do not let yourself be fooled

I'm not being 'fooled' by anyone thank you.

Welcome to mumsnet @TheCurvedCottage

The curved cottage I have been saying all along at the beginning of the thread people should vote with their conscious. Not that anyone reads my posts,...........

It is important to vote on policies, not personalities. Policies are what affect people's lives. By not voting Labour you are effectively letting the Tories get away with what they have done to this country and giving them free rein to continue to destroy the country - more food banks, more children living in poverty, more homeless people, more disabled people struggling to live and now more destitute elderly people and children hungry at school. Not voting against this is not an option. It is really important. Corbyn may look like a bit of a weirdy beardy but his policies will make a difference to lives of normal working people, of children, of the vulnerable, of the disabled, of everyone except the super rich who will have to give something back. Please think about this.

Please think about this.

I have as have many others. My vote is mine to chose to do with as I wish. It's how democracy works.

Here's a perspective on JC and JMcD links to the IRA - just accept that it's OK for people to have different views.

capx.co/why-corbyn-cant-be-trusted-on-national-security/

Don't recall Jezza being an actual member of the IRA, I wonder why its OK for a Tory to be an ex member with no comeback in the press. Interesting that.

The media is biased against Jeremy Corbyn is all I'm saying and this is evident in almost anything that you read or see on TV about him so of course it will affect opinion. The best way to judge is just by reading the manifesto, looking at his voting history and listening to his speeches to make an informed decision about him or about his policies and how they will affect you and the people you care about. Those at the top do not want him to be elected so they will throw anything they can at him to prevent him from being elected and work towards a better society for normal people rather than the select few at the top.

The media is biased against Jeremy Corbyn is all I'm saying

Those at the top do not want him to be elected so they will throw anything they can at him to prevent him from being elected

Always someone else's fault isn't it? Who are 'those at the top'?

Two4.. who wrote that piece?

It says at the top of the article!

Those are Murdoch, Dacre and those who have Theresa May in their pockets. The elite who fund the campaigns, the owners of huge multinational corporations who get away with tax avoidance at our expense.

People like Tory MP Damien Green, ex-director of a water company who doesn't want public to own water when people like him can personally enrich themselves.

It's all the 'elites' fault.

Getting excuses in early if Corbyn loses then.

Juliet

On the face of it I agree the Labour manifesto has many good ideas but I don't think it works for the following reasons:

• raising taxes causes a change in behaviour - you rarely raise as much as you think you will.
• small companies will struggle with the min wage - read the £10 min wage thread as an illustration
• large companies have more flexibility to increase costs (ie. pay higher wages), but they will pass those costs (including tax rises) on to us, the consumers, in order to protect their profit margins. Large companies don't like red tape, like collective bargaining. We have low unemployment because the economy is flexible.
• increase costs causes inflation to go up. Interest rates are raised (cost of debt goes up, mortgages go up)
• Labour want to borrow a lot of money (c£250 billion for renationalisation), £25-40 billion for their spending plans (range because I didn't know if tuition fees for the extra year announced today were in the manifesto, I don't think so)
• cost of renationalisation is huge and mechanism for taking public companies private not clear (ie. buying out the shareholders). The debt used to purchase theses companies needs to be serviced in addition to cutting the costs for consumers from the profits the businesses currently make
• existing debt maturing soon needs to be refinanced and if interest rates go up or investors demand a higher return because the UK is issuing more debt, interest costs go up - money that could be used for schools etc
• JC is saying the debt/'trend' GDP ratio will not go up. What is trend GDP, it's not a term used. He needs some pretty juicy GDP growth because the payback in GDP growth is pretty slow for many of his policies - I can't find where he's tried to explain this - do you have any links?

-Brexit is the big unknown.

Brexit alone will be turbulent for the economy, but adding all the JC spending plans onto it will increase the risk for the functioning of the economy.

Just my thoughts based on reading around and considering some think tank views

Why don't you open it and read it ?

To save you the bother, Ian Acheson, who led the independent review of Islamist extremism in prisons and probation ordered by then Justice Secretary Michael Gove in 2016.

And here's his bio for your approval
www.sampsonhall.co.uk/about-us/ian-acheson/

Read (in detail) what the IFS opinion on the Labour Manifesto especially regarding long term costs, the raising of corporate tax with Brexit looming and how are they excatly going to renationalise the railways, post office, water and energy

Two4One2017 that's a really interesting analysis. Could you do for the Tories and why their policies are better? In think tank land, what IS a good deal for Brexit, the great unknown.

Yes let's see some for the Tories. Oh try and pick think tanks that are not by Tories to be fair and unbiased. I doubt you will find any.

I have never said I shall vote Tory or that I was even considering voting Tory

Juliet I have heard Corbyn speak he made crowd pleasing statements as expected and waited for the cheers he is far from a great orator I could have quite easily written his script , I have read up on Corbyn (and not the right wing press) I have seen interviews where he is being asked questions regarding his connections, I have been a member of the LP on and off for years I am knowledgeable enough regarding politics to know that the UK would never vote for a Labour Party that has moved to the far left in to government. Corbyn and his right hand man McDonnell their connections that will mean he will never be PM (rightly so) this will be really pushed into the media in the next few weeks. He has been the poorest opposition leader that I can remember, his actions at times have been questionable, his team (apart from a few) are third rate MP's Angela Rayner as education minister no thanks and his petty behaviour during the referendum campaign are just a few of my reasons

My voting Labour prolongs his stay we need to look to the next election this one is lost becuase of the idiot Corbyn and those who continually support him but we could have a chance at the next election but not if Corbyn and McDonnell are still pulling strings of they are I shall leave the party and the party I believe shall split

And yes I know membership is high and so are the crowd numbers it means nothing as we have already seen in the local and by elections since Corbyn has been leader