To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

Just as people often rightly point out that punitive tax can backfire and reduce tax incomes, the same is true of cuts:

Cut too fast, and too much in some areas, and it can end up costing far, far more when the knock on effects hit other areas. We've already seen this happen. It seems paradoxical, but cuts can cost more than they save!

I take issue with the beern skittles comment, too, but it's the sort of blythe and pignorant comment I expect from the Tories.

I had a damn good career until 20 years ago. If I hadn't become disabled I'd still have it and be earning a good 80K by now. As it is, we own our house, so we can afford to pay for food, bills, and a few extras - but we haven't been on holiday for over 3 years, our car is very old and we can't afford to replace it. I'm doing a nmw job for 3 short days a week which is about all I can manage without running myslf nto the ground and making myself ill.

If I were still earning, we would have lots of disposable income and I could make proper provision for my old age, but as things are, I can't. When dh and I die, dd will be alone in the world and I'd like her to get the house as she loves it, and it would be a helpful asset for her. As it is, it'll get used up on our ancient bones, and she'll have nothing and no one.

No beer and skittles here. Believe me, I know how lucky we are in not having rent or mortage to pay, but if we did, that'd be us down the food bank every week. Just because the 20 years I worked so hard were washed away by a chronic condition I did nothing to deerve.

Dawn, you chose to take your DD away and you own a house outright, I'm sorry if you're struggling but seriously.

I totally agree, BorisTrumpsHair

Even MN has largely come over all ME ME ME

I despair, so many people only seem capable of seeing whether they will immediately and directly benefit from these manifestos. The healthy and well-off don't seem to be capable of seeing that there is no guarantee that they will always be wealthy and well-off or that they will suffer from the social problems arising from living in such a selfish society, let alone a bit of empathy.

If you think only the elderly need social care, consider yourself hardworking (remembering that the Conservatives will only agree with you if you're in the top tax bracket!) and have no disabled people amongst your friends and family, it's pretty solid!

If you realise that people of all ages can require social care, claim tax credits or child benefit and understand that for some disabled people working is not an option, it's just words. Words which specifically say that nothing is going to change in any meaningful way. Disabled people will still be harassed, tens of thousands of people of all ages will still not get the care they need and the Conservatives still consider anyone earning less than £100,00 a year to be a lazy scumbag.

Also, notice they are still touting meritocracy without apparently understanding what the word 'merit' means (clue, it's not having lots of educational advantage and money...), which is never a good sign.

Yes YABVU

Jux I really hope pignorant wasn't a typo because I'm stealing it, so you may as well take the credit!

Classic from labour voters saying that May can promise the world but we won't get it. In the past few days Corbyn has promised the moon on a stick paid for with money from all our monopoly boxes no doubt.

I hate it when people don't see the irony of their words.

I shudder when I see the amount of free schools proposed. But it's there 'pet project' so hardly surprising

Dawn, you chose to take your DD away and you own a house outright, I'm sorry if you're struggling but seriously.
Her social worker had just persuaded her block her abusive father on social media. This was a tremendous step forward, hopefully ensuring her survival, or going someway toward that. The 40 paracetamol, ten night nurse and half a bottle of tequila she took at new year, the continual self harming and feelings of worthlessness needed a break, so yes, I chose not to eat properly for a few days.
As for the house, once divorce is done, who knows. Or maybe I should have stayed with him after his arrest, you know, just so that my disabled dd could have a holiday now and then, or do you think that disabled people or their carers shouldn't be allowed that sort of luxury avocado?

Coupled with Brexit it's a terrible manifesto IMO.

However, what is more terrible is that Labour are offering no cogent alterative and seem perfectly content to lose seats and let the Tories do as they please.

Shame on you Jeremy Corbyn. Shame on you.

*Classic from labour voters saying that May can promise the world but we won't get it. In the past few days Corbyn has promised the moon on a stick paid for with money from all our monopoly boxes no doubt.

I hate it when people don't see the irony of their words.*

Funnily enough I voted conservative last time.

Scrap free school meals for infants rather than raise tax on the wealthy and corporations? Its robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think its very flimsy and cowardly and really quite shit.

And Im not a Corbyn supporter.

Yes, I understand that. I did something similar last year - thought "fuck it" and booked a few days away for myself and the children, and was completely broke afterwards but we needed it (for different reasons) and were also on soup and toast for a week.

What I'm saying though, is that when you make a choice like that, coupled with outright home ownership, pleading poverty just makes a mockery of, well, poverty.

Stating that does not mean I think disabled people shouldn't have luxuries, which is fairly clear given that I didn't say or allude to it and it's a bit of an unpleasant tactic to try and make me look heartless, which I'm not.

I think it's decent, more funding for schools and the NHS which are two areas most want to see taxes spent on.

Axing FSM is a good move, parents need to take responsibility not the state. Far too many already expect everything to be provided for them.

The FSM being taken away, that's the infant meals which are non means-tested, rather than means tested FSM, isn't it? I know that the parents round here mentioned they didn't really need free infant meals and it should have been spend on children who needed FSM...I can kind of see why they are cutting that. Interested in the new breakfasts, will that be for the lowest incomes I hope (as it should be).

Avocado. I am in the house because I have an occupation order. I do not know how much I will get when the house is sold. I cannot sell the house for equity at present. I cannot afford to heat the fucking house. I look after dd full time, day and night, and trust me, nights means nights sometimes. If I can't afford to eat, and I can't get any money from the property that I'm in, how does that make me in any situation other than one of poverty?
As for disabled people not having holidays, dd is disabled, both physically and mentally. I have made it clear on this thread that she is disabled.

I know the amount of Tory voters who whinge about the NHS, or school funding, makes me want to slap them with a fish

But doesn't that depend on what they're complaining about? Personally I've always admired the dedication, skill and sheer compassion of most NHS staff, but that doesn't stop me wishing they were managed by people with some proper organisational ability - or even a little common sense

If you ignore people with disabilities, I'm sure the Tories look like a great option.

Indeed.

I notice that she isn't planning on doing anything about the housing crisis and the grammar school plans make me shudder, I think it's disastrous.

Merry, as a Tory voter I would like to see people making a small contribution towards GP's appointments. We have a obesity crisis in this country. We need to start taking some personal ownership. Why is the NHS free? Other countries in Europe have a shared cost and it works just fine (and I am not talking about the US).

We cannot keep funding a bottomless pit.

What I'm saying though, is that when you make a choice like that, coupled with outright home ownership, pleading poverty just makes a mockery of, well, poverty.

I think you need to read her post again. She isn't pleading poverty - she's saying that she was comfortably off until she had a chronic illness, and there is definitely a recognition there that others are worse off. My reading is that she is one of Theresa May's just about managing people, because of the chronic illness. What is Theresa May offering her?

Yes but dawn, the part I was pulling you up on, for want of a better word, was the eliciting to go away (and I'm 100% not criticising that choice!) and then not having money for food.

I think a lot of the policies about people with disabilities have been pretty shitty but I don't think this particular argument works in the context you provided. Rather than 'under conservative policy, I have to live on toast and soup' it was 'under conservative policy, I had a choice between a three day holiday and a decent diet and I chose the former."

Now, I do understand that isn't quite what you were saying because the post was originally a reply to another poster, rightly pointing out beer and skittles didn't come into it. Generally speaking though, home ownership and holidays aren't associated with poverty.

At any rate, I'm sorry things are tough and fingers crossed the divorce brings things to a favourable conclusion for you.

I know that the parents round here mentioned they didn't really need free infant meals and it should have been spend on children who needed FSM...I can kind of see why they are cutting that.

Thing is with this school meals thing that seems to be a hot topic at the moment, if the free school meals are taken away for some, you will always have a few people who are 'close to the threshold' who feel fucked over. People who don't have the money really to pay for them themselves but are a few quid off getting them free. Then of course you will get a fair amount of higher earners whinging that people with lower wages get meals for free when they have to pay. So no matter what happens with this, there will be criticism. I think this is why Corbyn is promising free meals for all...but even THAT is getting criticism by those who say they don't need free school meals.

On the face of it, there are some ideas I like and some I don't but even if this manifesto was amazing...I could not vote Tory as I completely disagree with the way the disabled are treat, and how anyone on welfare is looked down on no matter the reasons for being out of work.