To consider the Conservatives' manifesto pretty decent on the whole?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Pretty decent in terms in principles, that is ... as so often with manifestos it's too thin on costings

Main points here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39960311

Full version here: www.conservatives.com/manifesto

Monkey I'm wondering if she's felt obliged to put it in the manifesto (to please big sponsors or something, like Labour do to please the union leaders) but knows that it won't make it back onto the books because it won't get the support of enough MPs? (I'm hoping anyway) It seems odd otherwise to include it, particularly as she could stick it on the books for a free vote anyway in due course without pissing off potential voters.

I think it's important to a degree but the huge amount of attention it's getting is attention drawn away from more important debates

I agree, but the people who are making a big thing about it are not tory voters, it is another sneer against the landed gentry/rich tory mindset that they want to portray.

No doubt they looked at their poll lead and worked out this was as good a time as any to make the changes

Thats what i suspect as well, grab it now before brexit to show it is not untouchable.

Concerning the cuts for OAPs, and to be fair, I imagine others parties will thank them for grasping the nettle on this as it's surely needed doing for ages

Well yes its been a huge elephant in the room for a while now. we cannot afford this triple lock pensions thing. The bedroom tax...people most likely to be 'underoccupying' are pensioners, who are exempt for some reason...its all a bit daft.

At the same time I kind of see why as it comes across as particularly heartless to be cutting away at OAPs income. But then....its heartless to do the same to the disabled but everyone seems to ignore that...

just I agree!

I wonder if the care for the elderly thing is linked into the other one about giving family a year's unpaid leave to care for them. There was good article on that in the Times yesterday, about it was more pressure on women the guilt etc, having raised children and now this focus on taking unpaid leave to look after elderly parents.

Again, it is not the poor elderly it will affect though, they are planning in protecting at least 100K in the value of the home. Up from 23K. I guess that is good. I'm not sure overall though.

the general tone has always been that they would never touch the elderly vote because of voting demographics/

Speaking as a pensioner - I hope it loses them some votes.

I kind of see why as it comes across as particularly heartless to be cutting away at OAPs income

So do I, but then with the triple lock abolition it's not as if they won't be getting any rise ... and at least means testing the the winter fuel payment means it will still go to those in genuine need

I'll be a pensioner myself quite soon and yes, it will cost me money, but that can't be helped. The point is that I just can't see any justification for making savings elsewhere and leaving an entire section of society untouched

I wonder if the care for the elderly thing is linked into the other one about giving family a year's unpaid leave to care for them. There was good article on that in the Times yesterday, about it was more pressure on women the guilt etc, having raised children and now this focus on taking unpaid leave to look after elderly parents.

I don't think its quite as clandestine as that, but I admit I can now see a parallel, we are in a situation pretty much already where those at the lower end of the scale have to look after there elderly parents because of the costs involved, many contributing factors in this of course (and not all because of the evil tories), I think the thinking is making it more making the top heavy demographics being targeted a bit more.

I'm possibly coming across heartless or whatever in this comment, but I'm not meaning to.

SilverDragnfly1 pignorant was entirely deliberate. Please feel free, I quite like it

I'll be a pensioner myself quite soon and yes, it will cost me money, but that can't be helped. The point is that I just can't see any justification for making savings elsewhere and leaving an entire section of society untouched

I agree 100%. I am far from a supporter of the Conservative party but I am happy they have finally taken the plunge. I feel so conflicted with my views on this as it feels awful to be for a few cuts to OAPs but when you consider how many cuts other members of society have taken, it really needs to be done if more cuts are the way forward (which they will be with the Tories)

They are already putting out the propaganda for grandparents to take on unpaid childcare. That's a Michael Howard proposal from the early 2000s and it's back on the agenda again. I saw a programme only the other day where Granny (never Grandad, I notice) was praised effusively for putting her retirement on hold to help out.

Early Years ratios are back on the agenda.
Despite being unable to afford to fund the free entitlement properly, causing many nurseries and childminders to go out of business, the Conservatives have found the money to establish new nurseries in schools!
Before you start cheering with relief, you might consider that the ratios in these school nurseries is lower: 1:13, in fact.

www.pre-school.org.uk/news/2017/05/conservatives-promise-all-new-primary-schools-will-have-nursery

And quite frankly, if you believe Theresa May's latest U-Turn - on Human Rights this time - you really ought not to be trusted with anything so sharp as a pencil in a voting booth.

Speaking as a pensioner - I hope it loses them some votes

Are you trying to imply that it is reasonable that people vote for their own personal benefit first and foremost as long as it ties with your own political beliefs?

Blimey, even my 14 year old DS couldn't believe some of the things they have in their manifesto, and asked who on earth would vote for people like that.

I told him - selfish, self-serving, uncaring Tories, that's who.

Well, he's hardly grown up in a neutral household then, has he?

They are already putting out the propaganda for grandparents to take on unpaid childcare. That's a Michael Howard proposal from the early 2000s and it's back on the agenda again. I saw a programme only the other day where Granny (never Grandad, I notice) was praised effusively for putting her retirement on hold to help out.

It isn't propaganda really is it, Labour was going to introduce Granny leave for childcare, it is a symptom of the housing crisis that has been on the cards since well into the not true labour years.

This also is quite an ironic anathema to MN in general, we are often told that Europe is so better than the UK because of the extended family connection and working together etc

And quite frankly, if you believe Theresa May's latest U-Turn - on Human Rights this time - you really ought not to be trusted with anything so sharp as a pencil in a voting booth.

Why is it a U-Turn?

I also don't see what the issue is with U-Turns (again don't see how this is),but, I don't want to live under an ideological dictatorship

"You should know better than to support the Tories on MN.. It's asking to be flamed."

On the contrary, many mners support means testing - the changes to social care have gone down quite well on mn! Not much support for universal benefits here these days though I did spot a couple of other universalists on threads today!

I do think it's a good idea to move more civil service jobs out of London - try to spread employment a bit more, geographically. Moving govt and HofP as a whole out of London would be sensible in terms of regional economics. Not all countries have govt in their financial/private sector capital - see US, Germany, Australia. We need a regional economic policy. Did the manifesto mention the Northern Powerhouse?

I told him - selfish, self-serving, uncaring Tories, that's who.

I think you have just inadvertently proven why neutral politics should be taught to teenagers

Are you trying to imply that it is reasonable that people vote for their own personal benefit first and foremost as long as it ties with your own political beliefs?

No, but since they have tried to buy pensioners votes in the past, I hope it comes back to bite them.

Did the manifesto mention the Northern Powerhouse?

I live in manchester, Labour have ignored it completely and even sneered at it in the past, however much I hate osborne he was in favour from the start and has put in place many balls rolling, again Brexit did kind of throw a massive spanner in the works.

Why? Whats wrong with bringing your children up with your on values?
Why bring them up with politics that go against everything you believe in and isn't good for the majority of the population.

Did the manifesto mention the Northern Powerhouse?

I didn't see anything about it in the BBc's "key points", but am still working my way through the full thing ...

I gather the threshold for means testing the winter fuel allowance will be whether you're in receipt of pension credit (iyswim) - does anyone know how much that is at the moment?

Puzzled

Are you being ironic?
I saw the reports and heard the speech, not a mention.
I'm surprised you even bothered looking.