To think SAHM should get priority over childminders at busy toddler groups?

[HulkMama]

Just wondering how people feel about childminders taking groups of children to a free toddler group that routinely turns stay at home mums away because they are full?

It's a church run group so they don't want to turn anyone away, I get that, but if there isn't room for everyone should childminders be taking up the places that parents with their own kids need?

Childminders are being paid to look after the kids! I just want to get out of the house and have a bit of adult conversation!

Comments from childminders welcome. 😉

JoanRamone sorry to sound harsh, but on the basis this is mumsnet, we all know the feelings you describe!! However some of us are concerned that children aren't discriminated against whether they be cared for by their parent or by a CM

£3.50 to a SAHM is often nothing??? Are you serious? We scrape by so that I can stay at home with the kids, £3.50 to me is dinner. £3.50 is my bus fare to school. You think working for 50p an hour, for one hour a week perhaps is unacceptable but consider that a SAHM can go without dinner or walk 3 miles to and from school to visit a soft play instead?

I don't personally see why CMs can't meet up together in the same way SAHMs do at each other's houses. I know some CMs who buddy up a couple of times a week instead of going to play groups etc. They all meet at the park or organise a trip together to the farm and get group discount (but they are the very good ones, I've seen slme barely acknowledge their charges at groups) SAHMs are often too busy with washing and household chores to do that kind of organising. There are other options for CMs.

Strongmummy - no it's no lt harsh, you acknowledged the difficulties of becoming a parent but you think that the groups are for the children and that it would therefore be discriminatory to children if they couldn't attend a play group because they were attending with someone other than a parent. I think it's pretty outrageous too, in that I think there should be enough play group spaces for all children to go say once a week, if their carer wanted to take them. However, I think that play groups are also intended as a place for the carers of children to socialise. And that if there was a case where there were really stretched resources then it would be acceptable to prioritise certain members of society over others to ensure maximum benefit and that in such a scenario it would be fine to decide that new parents were overall more likely to need that service then child minders, for their own wellbeing. My DC is now that bit older, I get more sleep and I have met friends at play group so if I was in a scenario where there was just one remaining play group in the area and they decided to prioritise say parents of under ones, or under twos, I could go and start a play group and/or meet up with my existing friends to give my DC and I that interaction, but with pnd and no sleep I needed existing groups more than I do now.

I don't personally see why CMs can't meet up together in the same way SAHMs do at each other's houses.
Would you have space for 3 adults and 12 children to meet up for a playdate in your house? Why do you think CMs have the space to do that?

SAHMs are often too busy with washing and household chores to do that kind of organising.
And CMs aren't? They have washing and household chores too, probably more so since they are looking after other people's children in their own home. Plus their paperwork and accounts.

I think kids should always be the priority, the fact that these groups are social for adults is a positive bi-product.

Unless you have a link to the church OP (or even if you do) they do have no obligation to accommodate you.

You call this a "free" playgroup, but presumably they accept donations.

I was happy to see your point of view right up to the point where you categorically said you would not be arriving early and that the church should sort it out.

Many churches will offer additional sessions if their one is full every week, but it will depend on volunteer availability/room availability and also if the group is self-funding or if it's taking funding from the church coffers. If the church takes a hit for every playgroup it runs, or can't drum up the volunteers (bear in mind it will be paying for criminal records checks for them all, and often first aid for some) then maybe they aren't in a position to offer another group.

It always takes someone to set up a group. Perhaps there's another group you can access?

Lost DBS checks are free for volunteers. I work for a church, including running toddler groups and charities are free. I don't know if someone take the hit somewhere but neither the volunteer, church or diocese pay.

Apart from that, I agree with all you've said.

I understand where this post is coming from, although it doesn't seem fair to exclude CM.
My nearest church group has a fee of £2.50 per family rather than a charge per child like all the rest. They also have far better biscuits than all other groups!
Result of that was that all the local childminders took kids there because it cost them peanuts compared to other groups. I don't think anyone was every refused entry though.
I got frustrated though because the 8-10 CM who regularly attended paid little or no attention to their mindees once there, and as A result I spent a lot of time trying to stop minded kids smacking my toddler, pushing him off the scooter, stealing his toy, squashing my baby etc. All normal toddler grouo behaviour BUT the CM should have been dealing with those kids, not me. One session a baby was left in a walker that they couldn't actually walk anywhere as it was too high. She was there for almost an hour with absolutely no interaction from her CM. I felt so sad for her, and for her parents who probably had no idea that this was going on.
I eventually stopped going to the group because the behaviour of the minded children with no one to stop them frustrated me so much.
I am absolutely not saying that all CM are like this, my son went to a CM who was absolutely brilliant, and I know many other good ones too.

You can pass on feedback and still get there early. You're not talking hours, just a matter of minutes! Hardly a big ask. Sounds like you are digging your heels in for the sake of it

hulkmama I'm quite impressed that you've stayed with this thread as you have got quite a, er, toasting.

If it helps I know exactly what you mean about being turned away and sometimes just needing to go and stare and drink coffee in a room with other adults in it when you're a SAHM and it can feel quite desperate when that happens.

It's not the fault of the groups though (and there may come a time when you're glad CMs use it eg if you go back to work so your DC has a bit of familiarity). You need to find something to do when that happens. ANYTHING that makes it easier. Go to the library? Any train stations you can go to and watch trains etc?

Second plantsitter with the trains. I have spent many an hour sitting watching trains/buses with a coffee in a thermos mug. It doesn't get you adult company admittedly, but it's fresh air. Also if you can find a small round outdoor cushion, they stop your bottom from freezing on benches in the winter.

The reason I won't bother with this group any more is because if I do get in someone else doesn't! It would be selfish of me to complain that there isn't enough room and then just snatch someone else's spot! I find it a bit sad that the attitude from so many comment is "get there earlier and then someone else will miss out". I don't like the thought of anyone else struggling on their own after being turned away.

Before you jump down my throat, yes, i know cms are people too, priviledge to be at sahm etc etc, but if cms can get there mindees to the other, less crowded groups, why not ask? This church runs 3 groups a week, why not ask the cms to avoid the busiest one if it means fewer mums being turned away?

I did used to pay for a dance class elsewhere on the day that the church group runs, but it was cancelled due to small numbers. Everybody turns up for the church group because it is free. I dont mind paying for groups, its the crappy public transport that is the major cost... which is why it would be nice to go to the local church group!

We do other activities, not just toddler groups, but to meet other mums who live in our area we need to go to the groups in our area.

plantsitter I was prepared for 90% abuse and 10% genuine debate, so not that bothered about those sounding off without taking into account the fact I asked a question!

Lost a lot of local services round here (bloody tories cutting budgets) to the point where our local library is only open part time and the childrens centre cancelled everything that wasn't targeted to at risk or special needs children.

Or why don't you attend the other quieter groups? I don't understand why or how a CM is inferior to a SAHP.

Want2bSupermum- the OP hasn't said CMs are inferior though?

That's awful Domestic, baby walkers aren't great for their bones especially for an hour

Op - if you get there earlier you may take the slot of the CMs you want to get rid of. I really don't get your "guilt".

joan The OP is expecting CMs to rearrange their schedules to accommodate SAHMs as the other groups are not as busy.

I have no clue why a SAHP would expect a CM to rearrange their schedule to accommodate them. The SAHP isn't superior to a CM. The group is for the DC plus their caregiver, who can be a SAHP, CM or a nanny. The type of caregiver should be irrelevant.

I'm working. If I found out anyone was as rude to the person I've trusted with my DC as this OP is I would be having a word. No one treats my nanny as a 2nd rate person. I demand they are respected and if anyone doesn't treat them with respect I will speak up to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Calm down - op is not being superior or putting anyone down.

I agree with you op and the poster on the previous page that made the point that people running a business and being paid are offloading some of that responsibility onto volunteer groups set up largely to help isolated new parents. That certainly happened when I was a sahm in London.

want2besupermum Wow. Okay.

Um, I asked a question: aibu?

People answered. I listened. My opinions shifted a bit. I took on board what people were saying. My perception of cms changed. I recognised there was not an easy fix to the overcrowding at this particular group but this thread has thown up some useful suggestions. It's been a useful discussion.

I've tried to keep it on topic, not to feed the trolls (it's not really mumsnet unless someone tells you you are a bad person who shouldn't have kids!) but your comment made my jaw hit the floor.

I don't know if your day job is as a dominatrix, or if you are just not a people person, but you can demand my respect as much as you like. You won't get it. (Much like any part of this discussion.)

I'm sorry but if childminders are being paid then they're outsourcing their work for free.

Plus SAHM really need that resource to meet other parents

Oh no is Chelle going to take over from Carmel on market?

Why does Kush still live with his mum or did she move in with him?

Surely no-one has any more rights to go than anyone else. I don't understand why someone above thinks childminders are outsourcing their work for free. They are working whilst at the playgroup surely. Playgroups are predominantly for the children to mix first and foremost, and I'd hate to think my child couldn't go just because they go to a childminder.

notmyrealname You've just made me laugh by suggesting I outsource my work when I attend playgroups/toddler groups as a childminder. Who is watching the children, intervening when needed, changing their nappies, taking them to the toilet, getting their drinks/snacks, reading them stories, giving them a cuddle, wiping their nose, actually playing with them? Are there actually toddler groups in a different part of the country where the volunteers who run them do all these things? No, didn't think so. Just because I attend a group doesn't mean my responsibility ends as I walk through the door and I think that is such a ridiculous thing to suggest.