To think SAHM should get priority over childminders at busy toddler groups?

[HulkMama]

Just wondering how people feel about childminders taking groups of children to a free toddler group that routinely turns stay at home mums away because they are full?

It's a church run group so they don't want to turn anyone away, I get that, but if there isn't room for everyone should childminders be taking up the places that parents with their own kids need?

Childminders are being paid to look after the kids! I just want to get out of the house and have a bit of adult conversation!

Comments from childminders welcome. 😉

I have not read the full but I am going to go against opinion.

I am assuming that the group the OP refers to is a small group run at minimal cost or free.

It boils my piss when businesses use free/low cost community assets to boost their own profits. Childminders are running a business, paid to look after children. It is not fair for them to use community resources to the detriment of others. I have no problem with them going to eg a soft play which is also a business. It's a bit like someone getting a medical procedure done privately and the surgeon telling them to go the GP for all of their aftercare needs.

But itsallgoing, childminders aren't going to the toddler groups for the benefit of their business. They are going to benefit the children of the community.
The nearest soft play to me is £3.50 per child. I only get paid £4 an hour per child, should I work for 50p an hour when there is a free session at another play area?
I absolutely hate soft play, but I do it because the children absolutely love it and I think they really get loads from the messy play sessions the soft play area runs but these children wouldn't get the opportunity if the free sessions weren't on because I can't afford to work for 50p an hour. £3.50 to a SAHM is often nothing, but to me it literally defeats the point of me working.

But itsallgoing, childminders aren't going to the toddler groups for the benefit of their business

Of course they are. They are subcontracting them to provide entertainment for their clients. Except they are not paying for it.

I absolutely hate soft play, but I do it because the children absolutely love it and I think they really get loads from the messy play sessions

Surely as a child minder you do your own messy play

£3.50 to a SAHM is often nothing

Nice judgement there IME the people using the church baby/toddler groups could barely afford to pay the £1 for the session (and many of them didn't as they couldn't afford it)

They are subcontracting them to provide entertainment for their clients. Except they are not paying for it

So they are being paid money to a job, which they are actually getting someone else to do for free.

i assume the m&t is busy as its free

first come first served is fair

if you need to get there 15m early then so be it

a child should be able to suffer/wait 15m for an activity,you can take a bribe a book/biscuit/banana etc

if it takes you more time via a bus then find one locally to you,most churches i know have a m&t weekly, yes you may need to pay £1/2

if you get there and queue and get turned away with other mums then talk to them and go to the park with them and make friends

I think it's fine for CMs to attend toddler groups, it's about community and I think they need to do things with the dc they are looking after.

Hahaha, what a ridiculous response. I was willing to have a discussion but you are just being rude.
Surely I do my own messy play? Well yes but I am a human not a machine and doing messy play with three under 2 is incredibly difficult and can be stressful.
Going to toddler sessions is getting someone else to do my job for free?
Do you even understand what a childminder is? With that way of thinking, I suppose you are of the opinion that a stay at home mum going to toddler groups is basically handing over the responsibility of raising their child to someone else?
You've gone into the realm of ridiculousness.

And I'll tell you what, my job is FAR easier when I stay at home and play in the play room all day that it is taking 3 under 2 into town on the bus, walking to the toddler session, watching them all in the library whilst they sing/dance/ occasionally try and destroy the DVD display, walking back home and then getting coats off, shoes off, unpacking my bag, etc etc etc.
I don't bloody do all that for my benefit.

I hate messy play tbh and was a stay at home mum, who does like it. I was a bit like the French and Saunders baking sketch mum. Thank goodness for videos and bbc2 in the morning

I avoid the craft table when they do it at the group I volunteer with. I will happily sing but craft is not good with no artistic flair.

Childminders have a bit of a nerve taking their charges to a playgroup. They are paid to look after children not freeload. If a nursery sent out a worker with some kids to the playgroup wouldn't there be something said. If childminder likes some adult company then shouldn't be doing that job or why not have other childminder visit for company. Organisation should give notice that places are for those who are not employed in child care role.

Childminders have a bit of a nerve taking their charges to a playgroup

It's toddler playgroup, not mum chatgroup. I'm sure the church will allow a mum who'd like to do it run a mum chatgroup. This one is run by volunteers, for free. Nobody other than these volunteers can dictate who is allowed. Wonderful free resource, but OP does not want to wait 15 minutes for it. So the places go to those who do.

Where are all these playgroups everyone is talking about where people off load their children?!?
That sounds more like a crèche to me! I've never been to a playgroup where my mindees are looked after by someone else (and rightly so of course).
The whole point of a childminder is that they are trying to replicate the home atmosphere that a child would experience if they were at home with their parents. That is WHY you choose a childminder. For that reason, I will continue to provide the same variety of experiences that any SAHM would.

I have been to a playgroup where I've felt frustrated by (in that particular case) a group of nannies who used to get together, make a little circle of chairs and get their cups of coffee and have a chat and completely ignore their charges - leaving others (either CMs who weren't in their clique or parents) to keep an eye on extra children, comfort children who tumbled and navigate squabbles.

That said, I've been to playgroups were groups of mums have been just as bad. I stopped going to one because there was a biter there whose mum just paid him no attention at the playgroup and he took a shine to one of my twins who was at the time about 15mo and only just crawling and every time I put my son on the floor this child (2 and a bit years I'd guess) made a beeline straight for him and bit him. Supervising 3 of my own children at the playgroup meant that he managed to bite my son 6 times before I managed to leave (twice while he was in the buggy and I was trying to herd my toddler into leaving).

Not paying attention to the children you bring to playgroups isn't a CM thing. It depends on the individuals.

I posted above. But I really think that what OP needs to do is approach the church and see if they are willing to set up a second session. Most oversubscribed church groups seem to do this.

What about the parents of the children who are in a childminder's charge? Some of these parents have opted for a childminder over a nursery particularly because it means that their child can still be a part of the local community and take part in local activities.
These parents pay for this service. Should they be denied it by other parents who chose to be SAH parents? Choosing to be a SAH parent is a luxury not everyone can afford.
And what about the kids? Is it right to deny them access to community activities only because their parents work away from home?
I think YABU.

The crux of the issue is understanding who is the group aimed at helping - babies/toddlers (in which case SAHMs and CMs should both be welcome) or lonely/isolated SAHMs (in which case CMs should be excluded).

This is a revolving topic but just want to point out that the parents of the children who use childminders may pay for some but the church ones tend to be self funding or reliant on the funds from that church.
For some, like ours in a poor area, the volunteers may also partly fund them as well as buying craft materials.
Also I'm a sahm but that is because fitting in any job around my husbands insane shifts would be a bloody nightmare, especially if you factor in holidays.

I think it's interesting that there is an assumption here that I don't think much of cms or parents who use their services. Of course I don't think kids who go to childminders should be excluded IF THERE IS ROOM but equally their parents are already paying for them to have opportunities that my child does not : an OFSTED monitored learning environment with different toys from those at home and other pre school children to socialise with. What my child has is me, doing my best but dependent on toddler groups to meet other families.
I'm not looking for sympathy here (I'm not that naive!) but after a tough week I needed to hear another point of view and I got it!
It sounds like there is no where with a perfect system, but everyone tries their best.

I could say equally that your child has what mine doesn't. A parent at home full time able to theoretically devote time and energy to your child. In fact all the science says that in the first two years this is better for the child. So technically, my children being looked after by a CM while their parents work full time is at a disadvantage and needs such resources more.
If you argued that YOU need the escape then fair enough, but that's a whole different story.

Also I am not paying for opportunities. I am paying for childcare while I work. At home your child can have the same 'opportunities' mine does in the CM's home.

I like the idea that where spaces are limited, it is the dc who are registered on the waiting list, rather than the adult. For us here, some child minders kept a space for years, bringing different dc every year. Which meant some never got a look in.

I suppose it all comes down to we all have different perspectives of what's fair. It's a bit like brownies/cubs. Should siblings get an automatic place when others have been on the waiting list for 5 years? Why should one family get all their dc a place and another get no places. Is that fair? I don't know. It's murky waters really and unfair on somebody along the line.

So will you get there 15m early each week and wait so guaranteed to get in?

Blondeshavemorefun - no I won't be queueing for the group because it doesn't really solve the problem, it just means someone else is turned away. I will pass on all the constructive comments people have made here to the church that runs the group and see what can be done about providing something for the overflow of people who can't get in.

I've watched this thread with interest. I'm a SAHM and meeting other mums at play groups has really helped me. I started going to provide DC with a different experience but also because I wanted to talk to other adults and hopefully make some friends. It can be really lonely being a parent to young children, especially if your existing friends don't have children. Adjusting to being a parent, and coming to terms with being one who no longer had a paid job, was hard for me. Meeting other people in the same boat was invaluable. I was sleep-deprived, I'd lost confidence and having seen suggestions that the OP start her own group- I don't feel setting up a toddler group would have suited me when I first started attending them. Personally, I needed an already established group that I could drag myself to in a sleepy haze and be greeted by friendly volunteers and tea. Luckily, in my area there are plenty of groups so no waiting lists. However, I can empathise with the OP- if I'd found that I couldn't go to my local groups because there were so many CMs going then yes, I would probably feel that parents should be prioritised instead. Ideally, as where we are, CMs and parents could all go to play groups together. CMs do a fantastic and bloody difficult job, and of course they also need adult conversation. However, I remember being so tired and unsure of myself and feeling like I was just at home all the time outside the "real" world, looking up my nearest toddler group and thinking "when I have had more than two hours sleep I will go, even if it's the only day out that week". I'm sure that I'm not the only new mum who felt like that, and being able to meet other parents was exactly what I needed. I do feel therefore that if mums aren't able to attend play groups because there are so many CMs going that something should be done to enable all new parents to get to a play group if they wish.

Maybe get there 15 minutes early? And you can socialise with the other parents (or childminders) who also get there early because they know it's high demand.

I don't see why a child should miss out on being in a hall with soft play & activities just because there parents work.

A childminder is based in a house, just like a child who has a stay at home parent, so why shouldn't they be able to "get out of the House"

The groups are to benefit the children.