Labour's leaked manifesto

[LovelyBath77]

actually looks pretty good?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39877439

I think the world is coming to a bit of a crossroads and this labour manifesto is a reflection of that - total nonsense but a reflection nonetheless.

Giving companies free reign to robotise human jobs, decimate workforces and only create value for the highly skilled is resulting in social breakdown..

Market forces are working for the very rich only.
We need to wake up and consider what type of world we want to live in and we need to make companies more socially responsible - there has to be caps on what they are allowed to do.

For instance, facebook and google have decimated news organisations and their profits are funnelled into the hands of people who 'decide' to be philanthropic. They then use the funds as they see fit. Of course these are often good causes but surely, a printer, cleaner , journalist etc all having jobs and paying taxes and being contributing members of society is better than a billionaire building their egos with pet projects.

The Tories will push for free market forces, labour the total opposite but the reality is that we need something in the middle - otherwise the next 100 years are not going to be pretty!

Happenedagain2017 because the proposals affect my job and undoubtably pension...that's private and possibly identifying information so prefer not to be specific. I'm not here on a campaign to change people's minds so I really don't need to divulge what affects me so badly in the manifesto. I'm just airing my voice on a forum. Some people will think I'm evil...I couldn't care less. The forum is about voicing your opinion...nothing more.

deeedee & RagamuffinAndFidget in a nutshell yes. I'm not a millionaire that has the benefit of a trust fund or secret stashes of cash that allow me to make a stand on principle. I'm a working mother trying to keep a roof over the heads of her family. Some people may be willing to risk the home of their children or the ability to feed them on principle but I'm not.

Everyone has a line in the sand - I was wavering about voting labour in spite of Corbyn but the manifesto has made that impossible. The one big thing in there makes anything the Tories can do to me rather pale by comparison.

So what is the actual tax rate Labour is planning on the 80k-150k band to pay for all the goodies? That income band is already taxed at 40%?

Sometimes I feel that Labour treats higher income voters as the enemy and the ATM at the same time. I don't mind paying a bit more but how much more?

Can I just say how patronising and disgusting all this talk of "loveliness" " goodies" and " lalaland" is?

It's not fucking sweeties, it's the NHS that all of you and your children were born into, it's your kids schools, it's the police, it's community centres, childcare to allow people to work. It's normal basic stuff of society

stop making what we all grew up enjoying and what other decent countries have as standard into something that's daft to want and pay for with our hard work, luck or privilege.

Dawn

Love the sound of the manifesto so far!! Excited to see it in full.

Pebble, I don't think you're evil! Just genuinely interested to understand better how this affects people.

I am also a working mother and certainly do not have secret piles of cash or a trust fund! I guess for me I find security partly in other safety nets - social care, some welfare, NHS. I think the conservatives are pushing us harder towards an American system where those safety nets don't really exist. I find that more of a present danger than my pension being eroded for example, but I do recognise that's personal.

Merrygoround I agree - I wonder whether labour's ambition in these proposals at least help to change the conversation even if some are not realistic?

Such a shame so many have bought the austerity lie.
We can always afford war, have you noticed that?

no wealth or trust fund here either, also a full-time working mother. Not particularly keen to be unemployed if my firm decides its European arm is too expensive and starts cutting headcount.

Quite right dee.

DeeDee Most countries don't have a free at all points health system like the NHS.
Nor do they have the same community services as in the UK.

However, they do tend to have stronger family units that share care burdens.

I agree that social infrastructure needs to be protected but Labours proposals wont ultimately do this because they will not create the taxes to pay for these items.

As I said earlier, I think we need to make companies more socially responsible but this comes through not just taxes but employment laws etc

Tories strong on economy?
Hahahahahahahaaaaa. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39880844

Oh and remind me what's happened to national debt?
Oh, that.

Post ww2 our economy was SCREWED. What happened? More investment. NHS creation. Our economy didn't tank further.

I have relatives heading up a couple of the biggest financial firms in the uk. One is a Tory but can see that these figures could work. The other isn't, but agrees the figures could work. Neither agree with austerity.

they must indeed be smart and competent people dawn but they're not economists who've spent their life studying public policy. They can only say it would be ok for their firm. Financial firms are not usually operating on a small profit margin.

I hear that you really want labour to win - I wish they were doing these changes a LOT slower and in a better tested way, it'd be less of a gamble.

I do really want Labour to win. I doubt that it will happen.

it'll likely be the smaller firms not operating at comfortable profit that'll go to the wall or cut jobs, of course.

we can agree on that dawn - I wish Corbyn was trying to do some of these things on a much longer timescale so he could back off if it caused unemployment/adverse effects.

Why not get the Low Pay Commission to analyse increasing the min wage and recommend a level they thought was hours and jobs neutral? That's they way it was supposed to work.

Same with Corporation tax - why not have an independent body of experts recommend the implementation timeline and overall rate?

Bit like when Nick Clegg promised to remove uni fees, but as soon as he was in coalition they went up. You can promise anything when you're sure you won't be called upon to provide it.

And why don't people understand that history shows higher corporation tax results in less tax being collected. It is not a good thing.

maybe when the manifesto really does come out, he is doing these changes carefully and over a longer time-frame, rather than a big bang.

the Bank of England is independent now for a reason, to try and free it from political control. The LPC is supposed to research and set min wages. Clearly we need another group to review increasing the corporation tax.

I don't know why we would let politicians muck around with key economic levers, they should be given a direction from the government and proper implementation including control of levels should be left to the experts, not politically mandated based on votes.

Yep, lets vote them in and wait with bated breath while they deliver ..... all very lovely in theory, but given what clear vote winners anything to do with extra money for the NHS and education are, wonder why the encumbant party wouldn't be doing it too ... oh yes, it's the FUNDING silly ...,

Oh I forgot. We're in the top ten richest nations. We can't afford it.
Bollocks.
It's ideological. National debt has soared under the Tories.

It's not just the funding. It's the ideology.

Does it really matter what's in the manifesto, now that the overall hard left, even communist agenda has become so obvious?

I imagine most voters are intelligent enough to understand that what's in a manifesto isn't necessarily what we'd get, especially once the more unpleasant backers started pulling the strings

It's not communist. Left of centre and in Sweden would be considered centrist. The country as a whole has shifted so far right that anything left is considered extreme.

Totally lovely utopia that someone is supposed to pay for! Who exactly? Mega rich can hide their wealth and firms will just relocate. Jobs will go and Corbyn and his crime bench shower will be destroyed by Brussels. Nightmare scenario

It's a wonderful manifesto and the ways of funding it make sense, but they're definetely not going to get voted in.