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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Quads and homeless

162 replies

viques · 10/05/2017 23:13

homeless, alcoholic,on benefits , two rounds of IVF and FOUR fertilised eggs implanted. honestly, I have checked and I do not have a big enough pair of judgey pants.

He already has three adult children , and says he wil give up alcohol "when the children come home." OMG.

OP posts:
highinthesky · 11/05/2017 11:29

Well I did catch up with this and found it far less sensationalist than I thought it might be. It's essentially a tale of a woman in love with a selfish man. I thought she was coping admirably given the circumstances, and that her mum was super-tolerant given her cultural norms (my own mother would never have been able to show that kind of self-restraint). It's good to see that she has family support despite her very poor choice in marriage.

I didn't bother to watch until the end.

JanetBrown2015 · 11/05/2017 11:30

Watched a quarter.
So far the babies seem well looked after. The mother is not the brightest but there is a lovely grandmother around and at the moment the sober father too and he who has three adult children and clearly knows what he is doing with the three babies. It's just survival mode when you have three at once I expect (writing as parent of 5 two of whom are twins)

Alwayshungryforcrisps · 11/05/2017 11:39

Can't believe all the people assuming ss would be involved! On what basis?! I'm a social worker and seriously, that wouldn't be a concern!

TheGentleMoose · 11/05/2017 11:56

@Alwayshungryforcrisps Parent with substance misuse issue and a woman who was previously in an abusive relationship? That would have been an automatic referral to safeguarding during pregnancy.

2014newme · 11/05/2017 12:00

Alcohol misuse, homelessness and 4 newborn babies wouldn't be if concern? I've heard it all now. I had premature twins and we had health visitors, neo natal nurses, midwives blah blah all involved. I don't believe that family have no ss involvement sorry.

HarrietKettleWasHere · 11/05/2017 12:09

Alwayshungryforchips have you watched it? All of it?

I think the mum was doing her best under some very difficult circumstances, but I don't believe that family should not have any involvement with SS. That's four premature newborns and a father with a history of alcolism, of course there should be monitoring, for support if nothing else!

BillSykesDog · 11/05/2017 12:54

IVF clinics don't set themselves up as moral arbiters vetting parents. They treat a medical condition. The only 'report' you will get from your GP will be a medical one which will mention any conditions which might be relevant regarding caring for a child. In the mother's case there doesn't appear to be any cause for concern and the father appears to spend long periods in recovery with lapses so might not have set alarm bells ringing as cause for concern.

If parents have things like very severe mental health problems or previous addiction issues there is usually a process of discussion at some length amongst professionals and if it was in this country they would have been assessed as capable. It has to be bad for them to turn down IVF as in the children would be in clear danger.

IVF clinics don't get involved with parents financial situation or living arrangements. Lots of people get pregnant naturally in less than ideal circumstances and they don't set themselves up as judge and jury over that.

My heart went out to her, I have twins and that's hard enough with a supportive husband. The children appear to be loved and well cared for.

Sassypants82 · 11/05/2017 12:55

I think some people are being a bit unfair about the Dad. Yes he's an alcoholic but I thought he stepped up in very different circumstances, ie living with her parents who made it clear he wasn't welcome. I thought the Ina, the babies' mother totally started the arguments with him & would cut him off nit giving him an opportunity to respond to her, yet she kept baiting him.. Her parents (and no doubt due to witnessing so much) were waiting for him to fail & it seems he could do very little right, but was good enough to step in while they went on holiday... Totally contradictory.
I felt really sorry for them both but agree that the babies appear very well looked after & adored by all the adults in their lives.

Having said that.. Four babies, by IVF to an alcohol dependent father & a mother without appropriate accommodation and / or means to really provide for them was totally irresponsible.

Sassypants82 · 11/05/2017 12:56

Very difficult circumstances *

Gallavich · 11/05/2017 13:19

2014 since you believe they would be better off split up and adopted it's a bloody relief you know nothing about children's services tbh
The kids aren't homeless. The mum isn't homeless. The dad isn't homeless. They just don't have a house together.

2014newme · 11/05/2017 13:52

The homelessness is just one of many issues.

RebootYourEngine · 11/05/2017 13:59

I am just catching up on this.

I didnt like her parents. They seemed so overbearing. And speaking in their own language when he was there i found rude because it excluded him. The mother of the Quads seemed immature and spoiling for a fight all the time. The father of the Quads was trying to do his best. Yes he was an alcoholic but he wasnt given much support by his partner or her parents.

Gallavich · 11/05/2017 14:03

The main concerns was the alcoholism. But while they were not living with him it would not be a concern for children's services.
Also being alcohol dependent doesn't necessarily indicate child protection concerns, especially where there is another protective adult in the home.
Trust me, I know of what I am talking here.

Alwayshungryforcrisps · 11/05/2017 14:05

They aren't homeless
There was no concerns of violence
There were no concerns for the welfare of the children
There was no concerns for their ability to parent
SS would not be involved based on what we saw in that program

TheGentleMoose · 11/05/2017 14:06

@Alwayshungryforcrisps It worries be greatly that you are a social worker and don't seem to comprehend the impact that substance misuse in a parent can have on children.

Alwayshungryforcrisps · 11/05/2017 14:10

Of course I understand.

All I'm saying is that the criteria for SS involvement is MUCH higher to warrant intervention

JanetBrown2015 · 11/05/2017 14:16

I wonder if they do move to Ireland and where the half siblings are (the father's older grown up children)?

TinfoilHattie · 11/05/2017 14:17

Only seen the first 10 minutes and already you can see those children don't have a chance.

JanetBrown2015 · 11/05/2017 14:19

Reboot, yes the mother of the quads is itching to fight not easy to live with and in my view possibly a bit simple actually. I suspect she will need her mother's boyfriend's or his mother's family's help right the way through although she is clearly loving as a mother and looking after the children well. I wonder if she had children with her first arranged marriage when she was 16 (her only marriage) abroad and if she is legally divorced or still married to her husband.

JanetBrown2015 · 11/05/2017 14:21

I certanily don't think social services need to be involved but I am not convinced the father or if not him the mother could not get a full time job. That section where the mother is trying to find a flat to rent - she doesn't even consider she might get a full time job! There are two grandparents and thef ather all available to look after the babies and yet she doesn't seem to think she should have to work. it's incredible. It is as if people grow up thinking work is something other people do. How can we change that ethos? People work hard in Turkey. She was in the relationship for 13 years wanting to build a life with this man so surely if she lived at home she coudl have saved her wages or most of them over those 13 years to go towards a deposit on a rented flat etc.

BoudiccasHare · 11/05/2017 14:22

I thought the grandparents were rude and difficult - they hated Tony long before he moved in and were just waiting for a reason to kick him out again. Seemed to me they wanted him separated from their daughter and were pushing that angle. On top of that, leaving their daughter aged 16 in Cyprus with a husband who 'beat me everyday' according to their daughter - disgusting. I did think it was awful also that Tony was good enough for their daughter when they wanted to go off on holiday Hmm

Ina - spoiling for a fight constantly and was all too happy for her parents to get rid of her partner. She was certainly the dominant force in the relationship as during an argument she agreed that she wanted the kids, got that many kids. It was all for her.

I did end up feeling sorry for Tony. He was kicked out and stopped from seeing his children, when he obviously wanted to. He certainly needed to get wise and sober up however, no excuse with all those kids to look after.

SkippyFox · 11/05/2017 14:22

And speaking in their own language when he was there i found rude because it excluded him

It's their house and they don't like the guy with very good reason - why would they be worried about social niceties with him.

JoffreyBaratheon · 11/05/2017 14:23

Yes, SS don't give a toss about leaving kids with alcoholics. Our alcoholic neighbours even have got arrested (either him, or her but the noise when they kick off is both of them) at 2AM - more than once - and the 4 and 6 year olds are left in the house with the still drunk, remaining parent. No SS follow up visits, nothing (assuming the police even contact the SS?) We've heard them having some highly inapprorpriate sexual and other conversations with the children present and NSPCC and SS just accepted at face value the denials.

We used to live next door to a middle aged, childless, known-to-the-authorities alcoholic and his little drunk friend, and in terms of sheer volume of booze - far less went into their house on a daily basis, than goes into this couple's.

DV, endless fighting, ranting, child and animal abuse... SS came out briefly for a few weeks then appeared to sign them off. And as I say, the police have more than once left the young kids alone in the house in the middle of the night with one raging, screaming, abusive drunk whilst they have carted off the other.

Saw the programme. I think there are other issues here as well as alcoholism. Can't understand where they got IVF, given the circs but I may have missed a vital bit of the programme. Her parents seemed lovely to me. And his family - albeit they were in denial, thinking he was just a 'silly boy'.

I think all the "I will give up when/if" stuff is self-serving nonsense, aimed at the presence of cameras. I don't think a family with even one raging alcoholic is a safe place for children. But as SS are indifferent when both parents have issues, I doubt they'd bat an eyelid at this.

The mother seemed to panic if she was left alone with the kids for a second. Someone needs to work with her, on that.

MumIsRunningAMarathon · 11/05/2017 14:45

why are they even on benefits in the first place? (excluding pregnancy)