AIBU to say only psychopaths support fox hunting

[lubeybooby]

the kind who would laugh at and enjoy watching kittens being set on fire (animal cruelty especially early in lifeis a marker for psychopathic tendencies)

Because it's just the same as that. Animal cruelty plain and simple.

Imagine a group of thugs chasing a terrified animal to give it a horrible death

Now imagine they are posh people on horseback

VILE

Theresa May makes me angrier every day. Disgusting excuse of a person.

I don't give a shit if you live in the country or anywhere in fact and foxes are a nuisance to you - kill them humanely if you must!

Until TM made that comment, I didn't even know it was illegal.
Plenty of hunts go on where I live!

The hunt do not chase after that fox and kill it in order to control the fox population. They do it because it's entertaining for them to see an animal run for it's life and die and excrutiating death

I'm not saying they do it because they care about population control. But population control is needed and we have people that are more than willing to do that...

The death of the animal does seem to be rather quick, btw.

And as I said, I'm not pro-fox hunting (with hounds). Yes, gamekeepers could do it. But I suspect that some people may object to the costs associated with that. That wouldn't lead to a favourable outcome for the foxes either.

hopping

I grew up knowing several hunters. Where I grew up the issue were mainly wild boars. Absolute pests they are (at least they're tasty). Yes, a good and sober (....) hunter should kill them quickly. But what's so bad about enjoying the hunt?

Cricket but why is (human) control of fox populations needed?

Hunters aren't acting on instinct. They are taking pleasure and enjoyment from witnessing a painful and terrifying death. Really and truly the behaviour of a psychopath.

Could not agree more with this.

That was already discussed on this thread, Barbarian.

Those defending this disgusting sport should hang their heads in shame. It only became about pest control when people started to take notice of this barbarity happening week in, week out. Prior to this it was nothing but sport through and through. There is NOTHING that can be aid to defend. For christ sake my old boss used to tell me to dump the still born lambs in the copse behind the yard 'for the foxes'. It ensured they stuck around.

But what's so bad about enjoying the hunt?

Have you ever witnessed a fox/hare/stag hunt in the UK?

I really hope you haven't and are ignorant otherwise your comment does nothing but flag you up as a really quite unpleasant individual lacking in even an ounce of compassion.

I've not seen any convincing argument put forward on this thread Cricket - other than those concerning Australia. We don't control populations of other native top predators (unless you're a total tosspot game keeper) so why foxes?

What do you want us to say? Yes, I actually put my kids to bed, sort my dogs and horse out and then have a secret wank over when I used to fox hunt 10 years ago? Because it was soooo much fun seeing an animal die a painful death?

Am I seriously being asked what is wrong with enjoying terrifying, torturing and killing another living thing ?

Don't mean to sound rude but come on, "not having seen any convincing argument" on why population control of animals (like foxes, and deer, and so on) is necessary where people have changed an ecosystem like they have in the UK is a bit like not having seen any convincing argument why wheels are needed on cars. Read a little bit on the subject and you soon come across why. Separate issue to fox hunting with hounds though - control itself is often done to prevent animals getting ill or suffering.

Have you ever witnessed a fox/hare/stag hunt in the UK?

Hares are a bit different, they won't last ages when any hunting-type dog gets hold of them.

I support the ban for larger animals like foxes that will suffer if killed by dogs because they will not do it quickly/cleanly. Blanket opposition to all hunting is a more hardline position that not everyone will agree with.

blerb I am a conservation biologist. This is my field. I know lots of convincing arguments for deer control. For foxes - not so much. The fact that you are conflating the two suggests that its not me who needs to do some reading. But hey, show me your expertise and explain a bit.

Hares are a bit different, they won't last ages when any hunting-type dog gets hold of them
Oh well that's alright then
Stupid comment

NRTFT, and not a personal fan, but the Burn's report concluded on welfare of foxes:

6.60 Our tentative conclusion is that lamping using rifles, if carried out properly and in appropriate circumstances, has fewer adverse welfare implications than hunting, including digging-out. However, in areas where lamping is not feasible or safe, there would be a greater use of other methods. We are less confident that the use of shotguns, particularly in daylight, is preferable to hunting from a welfare perspective. We consider that the use of snaring is a particular cause for concern.

6.61 In practice, it is likely that some mixture of all of these methods would be used. In the event of a ban on hunting, it is possible that the welfare of foxes in upland areas could be affected adversely, unless dogs could be used, at least to flush foxes from cover.

But what's so bad about enjoying the hunt?

Have you ever witnessed a fox/hare/stag hunt in the UK?
I really hope you haven't and are ignorant otherwise your comment does nothing but flag you up as a really quite unpleasant individual lacking in even an ounce of compassion.

I'm actually an extremely pleasant individual

Anyhow, I'm guessing you're asking this because of this comment:

I grew up knowing several hunters. Where I grew up the issue were mainly wild boars. Absolute pests they are (at least they're tasty). Yes, a good and sober (....) hunter should kill them quickly. But what's so bad about enjoying the hunt?

On this thread there are users that apparently think that any kind of hunting should never be an even remotely entertaining activity, the discussion seems to have evolved to include other hunting practices and occasionally even fishing. And this comment was in response to that and specifically about the hunting I grew up with (=the animals were shot). I see nothing wrong with enjoying hunting and shooting animals.

As for hunting foxes (with hounds). I personally don't care for it. I don't see the attraction. Having trained gamekeepers put down old foxes is imo a perfectly acceptable solution (although there are several challenges should one go for this tactic.) And there are actually hunting practices I myself definitely oppose.

But the OP is imo unreasonable calling all pro-hunting people psychopaths. I imagine most pro-hunting people simply enjoy the challenge of the ride(yes, I know about bottled scent).
I personally enjoy eating fish. And eggs. Either way, an animal dies for the pleasure/enjoyment of humans...

The baby chick gets shredded/gassed for my eggs. The fish usually suffocates (actually, that depends).The fox is hunted down for their ride. I fail to see the difference. I don't see how this makes me a "psychopath"?

So, to go back to the AIBU part of this thread...

Yes, OP, YABVU imo.

I love watching my lurchers work - chase a rabbit. The power and the skill is awe inspiring.

You love watching two larger animals terrorising a small one and tearing it apart, MegEmski? And you feel that that involves "awe-inspiring" power? I appreciate that they are simply following their instincts, but that fact that you encourage them to do so and take pleasure from watching is, to say the least, worrying.

I'm actually an extremely pleasant individual
I see nothing wrong with enjoying hunting and shooting animals.

An interesting juxtaposition

I have to post to counter many of the arguments on this thread.

1. Foxes have no natural predators and numbers need to be controlled. Many of us have seen ragged, skinny urban foxes barely surviving and many countryside foxes prey on newborn lambs. How should they be controlled? Snaring and trapping leads to long, agonising deaths and can't target foxes. Poisoning is cruel and illegal. The Burns Inquiry advocating shooting as the most humane method of killing. Which is great if you're a trained marksman. Many people are not but will still want to kill a fox that's killing livestock. That leads to potshots at foxes who are not killed outright but are mortally wounded, who limp off and die a drawn out death. Hunting provides that the fox dies or escapes.
2. Foxes are not ripped to death by hounds. A hound weighs 4 times as much as a fox and it is the lead hound who delivers the fatal bite. Yes, the remainder of the pack are then allowed to eat the fox but it is already dead
3. Fox hunting can target specific troublesome foxes. Other methods of control are indiscriminate
4. There is much anthropomorphizing of foxes. Yes, they are being chased but to presume that they are terrified or foresee their death is putting human emotions onto animals
5. I hunted as a teen. I am not posh. My family are not posh. My hunt was not posh. Those who hunted ranged from farmers to teachers.

There were other arguments from the time of the ban, economic and other but these are mostly redundant now giving the time that has passed since the ban.

FWIW I don't think hunting should be reinstated. Parliament has better things to do with its time.

It's kinder overall for all concerned if people can see the things they absolutely have to do in a positive light, and if they need the skills to kill animals to become especially proficient at doing it quickly and effectively

Struggling, this is in no way comparable to the mindset involved in fox hunting. This is not something that hunters "absolutely have to do", and they are not doing it just in a "positive" light but because they derive pleasure and happiness from it. Yes, foxes need to be culled, but they can and should be culled by much more humane means.

The death of the animal does seem to be rather quick, btw.

What's quick about chasing a terrified animal to exhaustion over several hours, Cricket?

But what's so bad about enjoying the hunt?

The fact that you are enjoying watching said terrified, exhausted animal being torn to death by a pack of hounds. It's directly akin to people enjoying pulling the legs off live spiders or tormenting small animals.

Zampa, you still don't dress up and chase the fox around before you kill it, it is an illogical way to deal with the problem. Taking pleasure in an animals death is pathetic.

Caroldecker, the Burns report was 18 years ago. We've moved on since then, including in relation to rifle and sighting technology. And we know now that the welfare of foxes has not been adversely affected by the hunting ban.

Foxes are not ripped to death by hounds.

I am STUNNED there are still people who believe the 'quick bite to the neck' crap.
sigh