AIBU to say only psychopaths support fox hunting

[lubeybooby]

the kind who would laugh at and enjoy watching kittens being set on fire (animal cruelty especially early in lifeis a marker for psychopathic tendencies)

Because it's just the same as that. Animal cruelty plain and simple.

Imagine a group of thugs chasing a terrified animal to give it a horrible death

Now imagine they are posh people on horseback

VILE

Theresa May makes me angrier every day. Disgusting excuse of a person.

I don't give a shit if you live in the country or anywhere in fact and foxes are a nuisance to you - kill them humanely if you must!

If a farmer is distraught/saddened by the death of each animal I personally would be worried for his mental health and his family.
The death of some animals is very hard for farmers. I'm not going to explain this because you clearly wouldn't understand.

But it doesn't make one a psychopath.

I've never said it did, Cricket.

But if the farmer has to control pests/slaughter livestock etc... Wouldn't it be better if he enjoyed this aspect of his job as well? People seeing as many aspects as possible of their job as "great craic" seems like a rather positive outcome to me personally. I'd worry for the mental health of the farmer and his family that's torn up after every death...

No I don't think it is better for somebody to enjoy killing things. I think that's quite twisted. And the alternative to not enjoying it isn't being "torn up". It's about having respect and basic humanity.

biscuit what a pointless comment. I'm sure a great many people who are opposed to fox hunting also abhor shooting and fishing for sport. I know I do. But this thread is about fox hunting.

I would be interested to know what people who agree with the OP about psychopathy think about other cultures or other periods of our own history where enjoying animal cruelty was the norm.

For instance (just re the period I am reading about), Anne Boleyn liked watching dogfighting and Anne of Cleves liked bullfights. Were they psychopaths?

Sapphire

I know. But this thread is about whether people that support fox hunting are psychopaths...

I don't think they are. Just like people that like to participate in other forms of hunting aren't. (imo.)

derxa
I was actually in tears everytime my grandmother's rabbits were slaughtered. I don't think she enjoyed their slaughter either... But I can't fault a person that does a job I pay them for (when I buy meat) and also happens to enjoy it.

Countess I would think that the answer would be yes, pretty much, though putting the argument that way seems a bit deliberately obtuse.

The core point is pretty simple it seems. One can understand the need to manage wildlife, protect livestock - to farm manage, essentially.

But it seems quite straightforward and logical to me to say that to enjoy killing, to enjoy seeing an animal run in terror for its life and be ripped to pieces -to say that you find that entertaining - well yes it says a lot about your mentality and none of that is good.

Foxhunting was normalised as an activity for a long time, just like other cruel 'sports' - now it isn't, and that's a good thing.

Bullfighting, bear baiting, cock fighting, using pet cats as bait for dog fights, making bears dance, clubbing baby seals to get a nice coat, dislocating dog's legs so that you can tie them up nice and easily before you eat them, fox hunting. All require a level of cruelty and disconnection from what we'd usually see as 'normal' human compassion and empathy and the desire to alleviate suffering. In other words, psychopathic tendencies.

Cricket can you really not understand how sometimes we have to do things in the course of our work that it would be inappropriate to take pleasure in? What about doctors who have to deliver the news that somebody's loved one has died. Do you think it's appropriate for them to find "great craic" in that moment? What about a vet who has to put down a sick pet. Do you think it's appropriate or right that they should enjoy that? And I'm not talking about enjoying being there to comfort someone or to end a pet's suffering. I'm comparing this to enjoying killing a fox. So I'm talking about enjoying the actual delivery of the bad news or enjoying killing the pet.

I love watching my lurchers work - chase a rabbit. The power and the skill is awe inspiring. I'd happily watch them course a fox too - they can't currently as it's illegal.

Foxes are pests and need killing

I'd be perfectly happy to let my lurchers do that if it was legal.

Completely wrong. A good gamekeeper will of course be capable of selecting the weaker or older animals as necessary. There is a skill to it.

In no sense wrong. Read my subsequent comment.

However, killing another living being should never be fun or "great craic" as you so delightfully put it. I'm not a naive townie. I grew up in the country and have spent most of my life here. I understand that these things are a part of life. But the decent landowners and farmers I know respect animals and do not find any pleasure in killing them. It's just a necessary part of the job. It's not recreational or fun. It's not a sport.

Er, we're off fox hunting and people shouldn't try to make the best of the essential stuff now?

Killing animals is not to be done frivolously, for sure. Treating needed shooting as a sport, though, even a competitive one means you enjoy it more, practice it more and ultimately become more proficient at it. More proficient shooters doing the shooting means more humane kills and fewer disastrous horrible ones involving excess suffering, it's as simple as that.

Not only that, but since caring for animals in any numbers tends to involve shouldering the responsibility of killing some, a lot of people who have to roll their sleeves up and do this are the very people who love nature and care for animals lots (farmers, veterinarians, gamekeepers and so on) and would be/are driven nuts by this burden. Sporting behaviour enables people to become proficient and enjoy life a bit in the face of what would otherwise be soul destroying.

I appreciate and respect your stance, but I think it is a bit naive - not a word I would have chosen but you said it. It's kinder overall for all concerned if people can see the things they absolutely have to do in a positive light, and if they need the skills to kill animals to become especially proficient at doing it quickly and effectively. The sensibilities of third parties should not be prioritized over either.

can you really not understand how sometimes we have to do things in the course of our work that it would be inappropriate to take pleasure in? What about doctors who have to deliver the news that somebody's loved one has died. Do you think it's appropriate for them to find "great craic" in that moment? What about a vet who has to put down a sick pet. Do you think it's appropriate or right that they should enjoy that

We have a very old cat, I absolutely adore the grouchy old beast. And yes, one day we may have to pay the vet to put her down. I'll be saddened by this.

But as long as the vet does a good job and acts appropriately? It doesn't really matter whether the vet enjoys it or not.
Maybe they enjoy killing cats and have found an acceptable way for their proclivities.
Maybe the vet simply enjoys ending a pet's suffering.
Maybe they're completely apathetic and don't care at all.
It doesn't really matter, does it?

Actually, for whatever reason the vet may be willing to do this (we'd obviously pay for the service, but even if the vet was doing it for their enjoyment) as long as that person acts appropriately I'd still feel thankful for their service. Seeing as I myself wouldn't have the stomach to put down our cat.

Cricket well then, like all fox hunting supporters, it's clear that you and I simply have very different ideas of what makes a decent person.

biscuit

I hate shooting and trophy hunting just as equally.

I also had an argument about fishing as sport with an avid fisher - they said fish can't feel pain so it's not bad. I still think it's poor show to half-suffocate an animal just for a bit of 'mine's bigger'. Pointless.

It doesn't really matter, does it?

In my example of the vet I guess it doesn't matter. But when you're talking about people killing animals that don't need to die and are being killed purely to entertain them, yes it does matter. The cat needs to be put down regardless of whether the vet enjoys it I suppose (still think it's completely sick that someone would enjoy that). But the fox only "needs" to die because a bunch of twits on horseback think it's a good laugh.

Cricket

I may thank them for putting down my cat humanely, but if I knew they actively enjoyed cats suffering then I would think them deranged. Someone who enjoys killing cats who becomes a vet, for the purpose of being able to indulge in that pleasure in an acceptable way, is no different than an absolute pervert who becomes a gynaecologist so they can examine sex organs 'acceptably'. Motive does matter.

*should read 'who enjoys killing cats' not 'enjoys cats suffering'

Well, population control is necessary. You can either shoot them or hunt them.

So, whilst that particular fox may not need to die... Culling them is quite necessary.

And I'm not even necessarily pro fox hunting (just not anti-hunting). But I am pro shooting and pro fishing, yes.
But in my experience shooting isn't necessarily more "humane". let's just say that it really depends on the circumstances.

Mariposa

And that is a perfectly legitimate opinion.

Native Americans (and other groups) hunt animals for survival. They don't do it for 'great craic'. They have great reverence for the animals that they have to kill, thank the animal for its life, take only what is needed, and do not waste. They have respect in their killing. It isn't a bloodsport.

Big difference to me.

may thank them for putting down my cat humanely, but if I knew they actively enjoyed cats suffering then I would think them deranged. Someone who enjoys killing cats who becomes a vet, for the purpose of being able to indulge in that pleasure in an acceptable way, is no different than an absolute pervert who becomes a gynaecologist so they can examine sex organs 'acceptably'. Motive does matter.
This. If i thought my vet enjoy putting animals down i'd think there was something seriously wrong with them.

I'd be perfectly happy to let my lurchers do that if it was legal.
Sickening.

Cricket but as has already been said on this thread, hunting is bugger all to do with population control. The hunt do not chase after that fox and kill it in order to control the fox population. They do it because it's entertaining for them to see an animal.run for it's life and die an excruciating death. And yes shooting can be just as barbaric in certain circumstances but a few posters (myself included) have already said that a gamekeeper would be able to accurately shoot a fox with no unnecessary suffering and within the correct season etc. There is absolutely no possible reason to hunt that doesn't come back to the fact that some people just like killing things.

I don't actually object to killing wildlife either to eat or for another environmental reason but I DO onject to people doing it for fun
It's absolutely disgusting and I couldn't have anything to do with a person who would consider it ok

Meg, really?

It was changed to autumn hunting post ban, to take account of the fact that we were no longer cub hunting - that's a fairly obvious fact without any agenda to it.

yes.... of course it was.