AIBU to say only psychopaths support fox hunting

[lubeybooby]

the kind who would laugh at and enjoy watching kittens being set on fire (animal cruelty especially early in lifeis a marker for psychopathic tendencies)

Because it's just the same as that. Animal cruelty plain and simple.

Imagine a group of thugs chasing a terrified animal to give it a horrible death

Now imagine they are posh people on horseback

VILE

Theresa May makes me angrier every day. Disgusting excuse of a person.

I don't give a shit if you live in the country or anywhere in fact and foxes are a nuisance to you - kill them humanely if you must!

"Always useful when posters clearly signal irony and hypocrisy. Well played!"

No I'm serious, I grew up in an urban area where somebody of an outside heritage could argue "there is no such thing as British culture in daily life" and according to our daily lives it was true.

Having grown up, traveled etc I have found that cities have a culture of their own, and that they often share more with other cities than the country they are in and then build on that. There is a kind of weird small-mindedness and actually bigotry in people who think themselves very cosmopolitan but simultaneously fail to understand that "silly bollocks" of local culture and tradition they couldn't give two hoots about is actually important to some people, even to the point they would tolerate and support its unpleasant aspects. I have found the worst examples of this to be the UK, India (!!!) and the UK, but you see it all over the place.

Fox hunting is not the most compelling example of this, but it is one. "I think x + your cultural environment is silly bollocks to me = my conclusions about you".

should read UK, India and the US

I totally agree. Sadomasochists . Every time that woman opens her mouth she gives me the rage.

No I'm serious, I grew up in an urban area where somebody of an outside heritage could argue "there is no such thing as British culture in daily life" and according to our daily lives it was true.

I'm an immigrant who currently lives in suburban Britain and it sounds like sneery bollocks to me. I see plenty in the daily lives of British people around me that seems uniquely British and consistent across towns and cities, while allowing for those regional differences as well.

Had you have no empathy at all. How about you get chased by starved dogs and horses and see how fun it is. Your opinion disgusts me.

Stupid phone! Jax that was for you.

It wasn't a way to wipe out a species, just to control the numbers in the most sensible way possible.

Frilly, how is it sensible to do so by having a pack of people dressing up and getting on horses to follow a pack of hounds? It's a completely illogical way to control species numbers.

Personally, culling the population through hunting the sick and old was much more favourable than shooting a healthy, reproducing population.

Why? Surely if you want to cull the population, shooting one animal capable of breeding several families is much more efficient that loads of people and dogs spending hours killing several older animals. And, or course, the hunt never does restrict itself to the sick and old - how can it? Hunting a terrified animal for hours isn't more humane just because with luck it might be fast enough to escape.

Natural because the wild animal is hunted in the environment that it knows and natural also because hunting does not use any alien technology (shooting, snaring etc.) for which the wild animal has no natural defence

Aliphil, how does it make it better to be chased in terror of your life for miles and then torn apart that it happens in your natural environment? And what natural defence does a slow fox have against a pack of dogs?

Humane because it is certain - there is no wounding with hunting the animal is either killed almost instantaneously

See above. There is nothing "almost instantaneous" about it.

I hate the argument that they kill chickens/ rabbits. I have rabbits outside in a huge shed and if a fox got into them I would blame myself for being so stupid and not securing my animals safely. I wouldn't blame a wild animal acting on instinct.

Hunters aren't acting on instinct. They are taking pleasure and enjoyment from witnessing a painful and terrifying death. Really and truly the behaviour of a psychopath.

Don't try to say fox hunting is population control or a 'good day put for the horses'
It's blood sport.
You're getting your kicks out of seeing an animals torn to shreds.
It is barbaric, there is no other word for it. Those people sicken me.

I don't like hunting but I know people who do and they're lovely people.

Lovely people who just happen to get their kicks out of chasing a terrified animal for hours and then allowing it to be torn to pieces.

Buck, will your lovely friends carry on if full-scale hunting is allowed to return?

And, or course, the hunt never does restrict itself to the sick and old - how can it?

OK I'm way off into devil's advocate territory already here so I'll bite on this point.

Taking the fact it's people+dogs+horses out for a second rather than a wolf or something, it's generally accepted that hunting itself through a predator running down prey tends to inherently target the weaker animals (ie thinning the nerd, natural selection). It's logical, then, that chasing animals down at the speed of other running animals would have to do this better than selecting a target and shooting it from afar, perhaps even having pursued/discovered the animal using a motor vehicle.

I'm not choosing the animals to hunt here or celebrating that it happens, I'd rather nothing was killed, it just stands to reason. Even if only slightly better, a hunt can't be worse (and seems ridiculously unlikely to be as bad) at selecting the weaker animals.

Hunters aren't acting on instinct. They are taking pleasure and enjoyment from witnessing a painful and terrifying death. Really and truly the behaviour of a psychopath.

All hunters? Because there is surely a difference between hunters who shoot animals for food in Alaska for their subsistence (or indeed the many thousands of hunters whose talent led to us all being here), and people killing animals ceremonially in the name of traditions, and several other notches on that yardstick.

Or do you believe all killing of animals is wrong.

struggling, a good gamekeeper/land manager DOES target the weaker animals.

As for eg subsistence hunters in Alaska, I think it's quite clear that the main discussion on this thread is specifically hunting foxes with dogs as a leisure activity.

Mrsbeverly, I have clearly stated many times that fox hunting is barbaric and I last did it as a child. And that I don't support it.

I was trying to answer some legitimate and relevant questions as someone who has hunted. Namely why the fox/dogs are an inherent part of it and what it feels like to be part of a hunt. I never asked you to agree with it or said I agree with it.

I also never once saw a fox killed on a hunt. Not that that makes it ok. But some posters seem to think we all go for seeing a fox torn apart. That is not the case. We go for our horses and the riding.

As an 8-10 yr old we went out on the farm with a shotgun and took out rabbits. Farmers would take a few hrs every now and then to cull rabbits. It's farm life. But at 8 yrs old we thought it was great craic. We the same people who nursed weak lambs back to life and treated our dogs like siblings. It's all conditioning.

@Sapphire

Of course, humans do cull weaker animals - we have eradicated predator animals that would be doing it otherwise.

Predator animals do it inherently better, because as well as selecting animals to be killed, they validate (or even make) their decision by testing the animal's ability to survive, heck they don't even have to rely on such unsubtle visual clues as humans, they can run at a herd with no apparent weak animals and see which one turns out to be the poseur. If a gamekeeper could pop a group of animals up the vets for a swift reflex/eyesight test and a go on a peak flow meter that would improve the process.

Anyway sorry, it's all going a bit off-topic.

As an 8-10 yr old we went out on the farm with a shotgun and took out rabbits. Farmers would take a few hrs every now and then to cull rabbits. It's farm life. But at 8 yrs old we thought it was great craic. We the same people who nursed weak lambs back to life and treated our dogs like siblings. It's all conditioning.

Thank you for your posts from this poster btw. One of the things that annoys me having some limited experience both sides of the coin (and what I was trying to get at in previous posts in my clumsy way) is that not understanding country life is a starting point of ignorance, but unlike other prejudices it seems OK to not only maintain but to celebrate. People only respect traditions because they are psychopaths, people would only ever kill animals with big cute eyes because they are monsters who enjoy causing death and suffering etc.

Even if only slightly better, a hunt can't be worse (and seems ridiculously unlikely to be as bad) at selecting the weaker animals.

Completely wrong. A good gamekeeper will of course be capable of selecting the weaker or older animals as necessary. There is a skill to it.

Farmers would take a few hrs every now and then to cull rabbits. It's farm life. But at 8 yrs old we thought it was great craic.

And herein lies the issue. Of course farmers need to control pests, slaughter livestock for food etc. However, killing another living being should never be fun or "great craic" as you so delightfully put it. I'm not a naive townie. I grew up in the country and have spent most of my life here. I understand that these things are a part of life. But the decent landowners and farmers I know respect animals and do not find any pleasure in killing them. It's just a necessary part of the job. It's not recreational or fun. It's not a sport.

Of course farmers need to control pests, slaughter livestock for food etc. However, killing another living being should never be fun or "great craic" as you so delightfully put it. I'm not a naive townie. I grew up in the country and have spent most of my life here. I understand that these things are a part of life. But the decent landowners and farmers I know respect animals and do not find any pleasure in killing them. It's just a necessary part of the job. It's not recreational or fun. It's not a sport.

But if the farmer has to control pests/slaughter livestock etc... Wouldn't it be better if he enjoyed this aspect of his job as well? People seeing as many aspects as possible of their job as "great craic" seems like a rather positive outcome to me personally. I'd worry for the mental health of the farmer and his family that's torn up after every death...

Wait, that sentence doesn't make sense in English.

If a farmer is distraught/saddened by the death of each animal I personally would be worried for his mental health and his family.

No one said 'torn up', just that perhaps the idea of it being enormous fun is in slightly poor taste.

Well, in slightly poor taste? I wouldn't disagree with that. (also, good or bad taste is rather subjective anyway).
But it doesn't make one a psychopath.

Can't see that fox hunting for sport is any different from shooting and fishing but it's only fox hunting that gets everyone in a rage. I reckon it's inverted snobbery.