AIBU to say only psychopaths support fox hunting

[lubeybooby]

the kind who would laugh at and enjoy watching kittens being set on fire (animal cruelty especially early in lifeis a marker for psychopathic tendencies)

Because it's just the same as that. Animal cruelty plain and simple.

Imagine a group of thugs chasing a terrified animal to give it a horrible death

Now imagine they are posh people on horseback

VILE

Theresa May makes me angrier every day. Disgusting excuse of a person.

I don't give a shit if you live in the country or anywhere in fact and foxes are a nuisance to you - kill them humanely if you must!

I guess really because I've been brought up to see the devastation that foxes can cause? To be honest, fox hunts rarely come across a fox. I bet my dog has killed more wildlife than most hunts regularly do. Fox hunting isn't the most effective method of controlling fox numbers by any stretch of imagination. A lot of hunts do just follow scents now but that doesn't stop the sabs causing trouble.
I do wonder what would happen to the hounds if fox hunting (and in that I'm including drag hunts) was to completely stop.
I'm on the fence really I have no strong feelings either way.

But you aren't on the fence, your previous post said you supported hunting.

I assume everyone here is vegan? Or eats only meat, dairy and fish that comes from extremely high welfare sources (i.e. rearing the animals yourselves so you know what's going on).

Why do people do this every time on threads like this? It's impossible to be 'perfect' about the choices we make - I'd bet my last penny even vegans do things that are 'bad', like use a product with palm oil, or use cars, burn oil/gas etc.

Humans cause chaos on this planet by merely existing, we have thrown the whole ecosystem out of order. So when we do try and stop cruelty, one bit at a time, why do others have to jump in and dismiss it? We have to start somewhere, if most people can stop fox hunting, perhaps it will widen their eyes to other suffering. Though as I previously said, most people simply can't afford to make the absolute best food choices, even if they wanted to. If most people put their morals above feeding their families, they would go hungry.

Fox hunting is not a method of fox control. Its a sport. the hunt actively encouraged foxes to breed so they have some to hunt next year. They even used to build artificial den sites.
Left to their own devices, foxes manage their own population density based on the available food.

Sensible shepherds bring their sheep indoors for lambing, and most chickens are kept indoors at least at night.

Fox Hunting is the cruellest and most barbaric thing

Chasing a poor terrified animal is just disgusting, it's hard to believe anyone ever thought it was acceptable

Please let's get the Tories out in June

I don't really understand why people think it's so much worse than the majority of farming etc. In a perfect world no animals would get hurt or killed but the fact is millions of animals every day are killed by humans.

Would you rather;
Be a farm animal who generally has quite a miserable short life before you head off to the slaughterhouse to go on someone's dinner plate OR

Be a fox going about your daily business as you please, eat a few lambs / chickens, then maybe encounter a pack of hounds every now and then which you would probably get away from if you are fit and well.

I know which I would choose. But it's fine to kill farm animals because we get to eat them and meat is yummy! But people who hunt are psychopaths. Ok.

Yes I hunt and can promise you most people who hunt are not psychopaths, they are just normal people. Normally women and kids who just want to have a nice day out on their ponies and definitely do not get their kicks from animal cruelty!

So YABU. They are just folks who have different views to you.

I agree with pp about the barbarity or factory farming, and about the hypocrisy of condoning it while condemning more visible forms of animal cruelty.

I do think this is a separate issue though. This thread is talking about the psychopathy of enjoying the act of terrorising, torturing and killing small animals, which I do think is very ugly and barbarous.

Most people don't take sadistic pleasure in the thought of chickens cooped up with no room to move, or cows deprived of their babies.

To me, the hypocrites when it comes to condemning fox hunting are the people who think fishing is fine but fox hunting is evil. I don't understand why having fun torturing and killing fish (small animals who don't happen to be furry) seems not to bother many people who are disgusted by fox hunting.

But it's fine to kill farm animals because we get to eat them and meat is yummy! But people who hunt are psychopaths. Ok.

Do you not get the difference between:

Killing to feed

And

Killing for the enjoyment (nice day out on ponies? What a horrible minimisation of cruelty).

If you don't get the difference, I would think that you are devoid of normal emotions, absolutely.

I do get the difference but it's not like we actually need to eat meat and we definitely don't need to eat meat / other farm produce that has been unethically sourced.

It's like it's fine to be cruel if we can eat it? Or is it that everyone eats meat, it's on the shelves in Tesco.. so it's fine.

Fox hunting people are a minority so it's ok to call them evil psychopaths.

Edmund

Because it's utter hypocrisy, that's why.

I have nothing against people that don't agree with fox hunting, their argument is valid.

I do however have a problem with those people who think "people who fox hunt are psychopaths" or who are aggressive and venomous in their attacks of people with opposing views to theirs.

I agree, we should start somewhere, but starting with fox hunting is a not the best use of time (or tax payers money) in my mind. I think there are better ways to start - especially because fox hunting is arguably not very cruel in comparison to some barbaric acts that go on.

Also Edmund, killing to feed - there are far better ways of rearing the animals! Do you know what goes on?! It's torture.

The killing to feed thing though has a pretty dark underbelly if you realise it's to overfeed a meat heavy consumer who doesn't need all that meat and puts huge quantities of it in the bin. That's pretty revolting too really. Takes the shine off the idealistic argument of 'but farm animals are killed for eating' when you think about the reality of that 'need' or greed.

We were on a walk with my dog yesterday when he proudly brought me a dead baby rabbit that he'd just killed (thanks, dog), should I keep him on a lead forever or have him locked up/put to sleep?

Or is it different because of the people in red coats following?

2. Want to control the fox population? Fine. There are much more efficient ways of doing it.

Quite a few people have said this on the thread but no one has elaborated so perhaps you can?

Frilly there are at least two posts which directly address this issue. As you so nicely asked another poster, "can you read?"

To make it easy for you, I will answer again now. It is perfectly possible for a decent gamekeeper to control the fox population by cleanly shooting the old and infirm foxes within the appropriate season. It is not necessary for 30 people on horseback and a pack of dogs to do this job. I'm really not sure why you think hunting is the only form of "pest control" that can be limited to the correct season to achieve the aims of the cull.

I really wish at least one hunt supporter would have the integrity to be honest about why they do it. It seems unlikely to happen on this thread.

Buck did you go on the walk with the sole intention of chasing that rabbit for miles and miles whilst it was terrified for its life so that your dog could rip it to pieces? What a dumb argument.

I'd much rather live a full exciting life with an awful death than be locked up, cramp with no stimulation and then have a humane death

But you're not an animal. Anthropomorphising doesn't help. And, for the fox, that isn't the choice, is it?

Honestly, banning fox hunting won't lead to more happy foxes. They'll just be gunned down.

That's fine with me. I fully accept the fox population needs to be controlled. Hunting does not achieve that, and it's barbaric.

However I shudder at the memory of the sheer time and resources taken up by the Blair Government on this issue, all the while humans were suffering with all kinds of issues, adults in social care, hospitals failing, schools failing etc. That to me was the real crime.

And one which Theresa May is proposing to repeat. Does she not think Parliament might have more than enough to do over the next five years?

LoveB people aren't focused on factory farms at the moment though, so if we all 'drop' the fox hunting argument (to the point it's certainly going to be reinstated), nothing will change. There's just a bit more animal cruelty in the world. Eventually everyone will keep a blind eye to everything, instead of getting any sort of ball rolling. Of course there are better ways to rear animals, but you keep ignoring the point that factory meat is cheap, and due to most of the population not being able to afford anything else the industry will keep growing. It's not fair to the animals, but when most people live on the breadline what choices do they have?

I do get the difference but it's not like we actually need to eat meat and we definitely don't need to eat meat / other farm produce that has been unethically sourced.

Meat is considered a needed part of a balanced diet. Ok, we can replace it with vitamins and such, but naturally people do need meat. People do not need to kill for no reason, which fox hunting is. It is taking a life for absolutely no reason than the thrill of it, the fox is not used in any way after it's death, which makes extinguishing its life utterly pointless.

Normally women and kids who just want to have a nice day out on their ponies and definitely do not get their kicks from animal cruelty!

Presumably these "normal people" are not bothered about controlling the fox population. As someone who grew up in the countryside it certainly didn't occupy my thoughts or those of my parents. Only the farmer's I would imagine. And as you say, these people are hunting for personal enjoyment anyway because they want a "nice day out". So please, please can somebody explain (without any bullshit) why a nice day out riding a pony is made much nicer by killing a fox at the end?

I have huge admiration for those selfless people who rescue foxes from illegal fox-hunting that is still happening. The abuse they get from the hunters is vile.

Fox-hunters always want to hide behind the 'population control' argument, but if it's really about that then why is it considered a 'sport', e.g. some form of barbaric entertainment? If population control is the real reason for hunting then why are they not killed more humanely?

I wouldn't say psychopathic, but definitely cruel and I don't think I could ever associate myself with someone who supported it.

Honestly, May's stance on the subject is one of the factors that has consolidated my vote for Labour.

I once demonstrated as a fox hunt and was charged at my men on horses. I can therefore say yanbu.

Can you not have a nice day on a pony without killing a beautiful wild animal?

It's not made better by killing foxes. That's why it's carried on and is just as popular as it ever was now no animals are killed!

They frequently did not kill any foxes! The ride was what most people want, over land they cannot normally visit. When I went hunting we caught very few foxes and not near me. Plenty just run faster than the hounds or go to ground. However, the hunts following scents are very successful and I would rather it stayed the way it is. Very, very, few foxes are caught by mistake and hunts did not need to breed foxes. That is total rubbish. There were more than enough breeding naturally. TM was stupid to even offer an opinion on changing the law.

Fox hunting people are a minority so it's ok to call them evil psychopaths.
I don't like hunting but I know people who do and they're lovely people.
This thread is typical with its hyperbole and anthropomorphism.
A lot of French people love hunting but the cliche is that the French are a civilised nation.

But if you compare the few foxes killed by a hunt to the countless animals in factory farms? Complaining about hunting just seems very precious to me personally.

By that token, we should never bother about animal welfare in any context, because factory farms. So we shouldn't be bothered about horrible people neglecting or torturing captive animals either. It's illogical.

It was part of pest control and there's a great deal of research to show that the killing of a fox by dogs is less cruel than traps or a fox being shot but not killed.

Research that is limited to those terms does not carry credibility. For a genuinely accurate finding you would have to include foxes who are shot and instantly killed. Plus, the logical outcome of that research must be to find a way of culling foxes that does not involve suffering, rather than bringing back a totally inefficient and ineffective means of control that does - let alone one that involves people enjoying the sight of a live animal being torn apart.

What is wrong with foxes being killed the way they kill? It's more certain death than shooting, and quicker.

It isn't quicker. It involves being hunted for hours, and if you imagine the animal isn't terrified over that period, you have a strange imagination.

Plus, of course, since when did we model our standards of morality from foxes?

without killing a beautiful wild animal? What if it was a hideously ugly wild animal?

I don't expect everyone to agree with it but it's not on to call a group of people vile psychopaths when the inhumanity caused is actually no worse and on a tiny scale compared to the rearing and killing of animals for human consumption which is on a mass scale and consumed by pretty much everyone at one point or another if not every day!

It's also banned now so pretty irrelevant. Leave us alone!