Reasons to not vote Tory this GE

[Bluebeedee]

1. Bedroom tax
2. Denying disability benefit to 165,000 people
3. Scrapping housing benefit for 18-21 year olds
4. Benefit cap
5. Rise in uni tuition fees
6. Junior doctors' contracts
7. Scrapping nurses' bursaries
8. Snoopers' charter
9. Social care cuts
10. Public sector pay freeze

10. NHS "10 year diet"

There are many many more!

Corbyn wants to invest in public services- education and health by taxing the rich more. Surely you'd have to be completely ignorant and selfish to not agree with this? 4 more years of the Tories will be the end of the NHS, we'd be fucking stupid to let this happen.

"they gave us Brexit and shifted the blame on the poor. "

I imagine lots of "poor" people voted for Brexit, EU policies have deliberately driven down wages. The vote was very complex and crossed party boundaries, to blame it on the Tories is far to simplistic. I'm a life long labour voter and trade unionist and voted leave.

Brexit was the brainchild of the Tories. I can only blame them for it. They decided we should vote on it. They gave themselves a scapegoat. Now half the country is blaming the other half for the shit that's coming our way. I don't blame the people that voted (much). I blame the Tories.

fuckwitery I think you have a valid point. However, more research is required.
Yes, Abbott messed up and oh my goodness didn't she just. However, as stated earlier, it's a myth that Labour don't cost things out and that they spend more. They've been shown to consistently borrow less and to pay debt back more quickly than the Tories. The figures are freely available if you look. Unfortunately the Tories have perpetuated this myth and it's become some sort of strange factoid that everyone believes without actually checking. The Tories are not more careful with the purse strings no matter how many times Thatcher said it.

Good rant Fuckwitery.

Apologies for my typos. I will of course read up about all of it. And am planning to read all the manifestos when they are published.
Ideologically though I inherently believe in a small state and that dependency breeds dependence. I do however believe in the original manifesto of the social state, to protect society's vulnerable. So it's about finding that line.

My deeper point was about the mudslinging and abuse that lacks any respect or genuine listening to other POV on here and on my FB page that worries me I terms of entrenched thinking that lacks any genuine questioning of policy just blind political following.

Corbyn lovers - delusional at best. Dangerous at worst

So. Those ensconced in political mudslinging, hand wrangling, and it's not us it's them thoughts. Please. Please. Open your minds.

Ha ha

Thanks tess

The Tories are not more careful with the purse strings no matter how many times Thatcher said it.

Nor do they cut taxes (for anyone except the rich - and even then not always).

My point was regarding the hero worship qualities of corbynites. I could have made it better and admit that and hope you'll forgive me.

My Facebook is full of either Tory voters being called thick if they are poor or heartless bastards that are going to kill nannas otherwise.

I don't vote Tory but I can see this causing nothing but people digging their heels in.

Not to mention

I don't like Jeremy Corbyn
Fuck off to the tories then you red Tory blairite
Oh my god why is everyone voting Tory

Exactly. It definitely comes from both sides and I've never know more closed down political debate than this. Isn't anyone willing to have their beliefs challenged?It's how we know they are true to us.

I like Corbyn, but he's no saint and saviour. I think to some extent it's a harking back to the old socialist ideals. I admit I don't have a problem with that, but the fervour with which some follow this without perhaps realising what it actually means, does bother me. I have four children, I've always insisted they make their own decisions. We're usually split Labour, LibDem and Green. I think that means I've done a good job in bringing them up to make their own decisions. I do know they'll be voting tactically this time, so their votes will be different.

The best thing anyone can do is go to the Vote for Policies website and it will tell you who to vote for based on your own beliefs. Too many people are getting caught up with MP personalities when the leaders could change within the next 5 years.

I've never understood the problem with a champagne socialist. If they're prepared to pay more tax to help others then fine.

I think the term Champagne socialist is not about the MC/upper class looking out for the poor, as there are some genuine people in this category.

It's more the type of person who has come out of the shadows since brexit and more recently about "turkeys voting for christmas" wrt to voting tory in the upcoming GE.

It's a scenario where certain subjects are taboo to speak about and if you do then your uneducated scum... its a weird paradox

Fuckwitery, I was asking genuine questions- saying I don't understand how someone votes for something i disagree with, or asking why people dislike Jeremy corbyn so much opens a discussion. There's a lot of mudslinging about labour and JC and I wanted to know why

I suppose it's also coming off the back of a really divisive referendum in Scotland, then the EU ref during which I nearly chinned my own dad.

Are they voting tactically over Brexit Dawn?

Champagne socialist has been about for years - it means someone who is minted but purports to support the left

Telegraph is now saying 100 labour MPs will form a new party if corbyn gets beasties but still doesn't stand down after the GE.

They've (Labour) been shown to consistently borrow less and to pay debt back more quickly than the Tories.

They have been shown to get the county into debt, which the Tories do all the hard graft recovering from. And then Labour have used the economy the Tories have improved to pay some money back, until they spend it all and again take the country back into massive debt. Which the Conservatives have to deal with. "There is no money".

Labour get the credit for spending the money, Tories get a bashing for picking up the pieces.

We need to end the vicious cycle and let the Tories fix the problems and also spend the rewards.

But you aren't going to change anyone's mind OP - why are you asking people to justify their opinions?

People believe in different things - I would imagine someone of average intelligence can get their head round that. Some people see JC as the new Messiah - some think he's a twat. Some people want to pay less tax and are prepared for public services to be hit, others want the opposite.

I think your Op was goady and predictably it's kicked off and got personal.

Exactly op."I don't understand". It's depicting a sense of "how can they be so stupid /evil / turkey". Instead of asking genuine questions about people's political decisions and respecting their answers. It reeks of "I'm far more enlightened than you tell me why I'm wrong" when it should be "we have a vastly different idea of how to fix the country so can we discuss what those differences are" and see how those conversations unfold!

Livia, no need to be so defensive. I'm not asking people to "justify". I was generally interested, tory policies seem to have a negative affect on anyone on low income, anyone with a disability, students, NHS, etc. To me it seems obvious that if you earn more (and over £80k is a lot compared to nurses who are using food banks) you contribute more to public services.
I was also asking why the hatred towards JC- it seemed like people were quick to say they didn't like him, but I'm voting for his policies not his personality.

I

Go research Anon. This particular government has managed to borrow more than any other since the war.

I'm not being defensive - I happen not to broadcast my political leanings. It's just that, as someone capable of stringing sentences together on the internet I'm surprised that you don't see why people are getting defensive.

And fuckwitery has just put it clearer than me