To ask how the NHS will be saved by labour

[mummytwoshoes]

Currently reading a lot of conservative bashing on FB etc about the privatisation of the NHS, I've seen the labour promise to 'save the NHS' but I haven't seen anything about how they will fund this. AIBU to ask if anyone knows?

Fruit Ah, so anything done during Blair and Brown under the guise of the Labour Party doesn't count, because they were actually New Labour. Much as they used that phrase, I don't ever recall them changing the name of the party of seeing candidates on ballot papers standing for the New Labour party.

So when it suits you, it's Labour, when it doesn't suit you, it wasn't really Labour, they just used that name? I think you'll find as far as the electorate go, Labour and New Labour were one and the same.

Interestingly, the more "old" Labour the leader or the party policies are, the less well they do in elections (Foot, Kinnock, Corbyn).

Fruit Wherever you got that thing you just posted from isn't true. You can have a minority government.

Fruit Wherever you got that thing you just posted from isn't true. You can have a minority government.

In theory, yes but in practice you wouldn't get much done would you?

Ooh, so you want people to work unsociable hours and overtime for free? I get it now.

Well, I do. All the freaking time.

I work in the private sector and regularly work 10-15 hours more than contracted per week and often work evenings/weekends for not a cent of extra pay.

So forgive me if I don't have too much sympathy for the junior doctors.

Jelly Perhaps so, but that's not the point. It does not mean that just because a government has a minority, the Queen asks the leader of the opposition to form a government, which is what it states. You can have cross-party agreements on certain areas of policy. Or confidence and supply support (as happened in the Scottish Parliament).

The Queen CAN do what it says but it isn't guaranteed or automatic, and it's therefore misleading, at best, to state it in the term shown in what Fruit posted.

it's therefore misleading, at best, to state it in the term shown in what Fruit posted.

Yes. However there's also a lot of other misinformation flying about on this thread.

We need the NHS out of politics, cross party influence with honesty not vote winning shit that never materialises . It's not fit for purpose, obesity is avoided even being mentioned as not to offend but its crippling the finances. We are a nation with a high percentage of unhealthy people that does not seem to be getting any better it was not designed for that.

Ditto to Spare

We need the NHS out of politics, cross party influence with honesty not vote winning shit that never materialises .

^^ Yes!! Can we take education out too while we're at it?

"Ooh, so you want people to work unsociable hours and overtime for free? I get it now."

hahahahaha. i'm not at all sure you do.

I am one of the higher rate tax payers that JC would love to tax even more. not a single fuck given by him and his ilk that to get here, I started working weekends and school holidays at 14; that as a trainee I often worked 24 hours straight without going home to bed; and that now as a senior, I work on average from 8am to 8pm, with a post-11pm night about once a fortnight, and I work probably 1 weekend in every 4. that's without the urgent periods when it's all hands on deck and it's 2am finishes every night. I've missed nights out, holidays, my kid's milestones...

I pay a shitload of tax every month. and I am happy to do so. but to see shit like "just tax the higher rate tax payers even more, it's easy" and "just get the big companies to pay more tax, it's easy" bandied around is daft. if it were that easy to do, without losing higher rate tax payers and without putting people off investing here, wouldn't every government be doing it?! but no, st jezza of Islington thinks it's the easy answer to everything. facepalm.

We need the NHS out of politics, cross party influence with honesty not vote winning shit that never materialises . It's not fit for purpose, obesity is avoided even being mentioned as not to offend but its crippling the finances. We are a nation with a high percentage of unhealthy people that does not seem to be getting any better it was not designed for that

I absolutely agree with this. Medicine and the needs of the population have changed so much since the NHS was set up. We need a reappraisal of it's role and what it delivers.

And that needs to be at a national level and without party point scoring.

*We need the NHS out of politics, cross party influence with honesty not vote winning shit that never materialises .

^^ Yes!! Can we take education out too while we're at it?*

YY to that.

NHS & education should not be political footballs.

They would put a halt on privatisation of NHS services. When services are privatised the ones which don't make money will be dropped and left to the NHS. The private companies keep on the services which are cost efficient. The NHS ends up subsidising these services and paying more with privatisation.

Another example: I work in mental health. We have seen increasing amounts of people reaching crisis point and needing hospital admission as the community services have been cut further and further over the last few years. The torys believe in making these cuts to save money in the short term: labour believe in continuing to invest in these services and save in the long term. It is through investment that the NHS can be saved.

"NHS & education should not be political footballs."

I've always wished we could vote per policy, not one vote for a party that's closest to your beliefs, but inevitably not very close at all to any one of them!

throwing fuckloads of money on it and pretending that all the problems in the NHS are caused by lack of funds instead of poor management and abuse by users (my surgery has dozens and dozens of missed appointments week in and week out)

acquiescence you do realise labour started the privatisation process, don't you?

Rose your working conditions are not exclusive to people on your kind of salary.

Many worse paid people have similar working patterns.

I got my first part time job at 11. Worked right up until being a Carer for my 3 disabled children stopped me.

Paid 40% tax for a short while.

Now I get £63 a week for being on call 24/7

Labour havent published their manifesto yet. We can only go on what has been said so far. No wonder people vote tory if they believe half the crap on this thread.

Aeroflotgirl, Labour plan to put up income tax for the top 5% of earners, and on £55,000 a year and you dont even come close.

absolutely agreed, and I never said they were.

however, fruit didn't seem to understand how the private sector worked, hence the colourful explanation!

I would be in the 5% that got taxed more. which would boil my piss because I wouldn't trust corbyn and abbott and the rest of the morons to spend it wisely. it would simply disappear into a black hole of their incompetence, at which point guess what, they'd shake that magic money tree and put taxes up again. if we actually had a decent government - which seems unlikely given the depressing options - then it would be different.

wonder if corbyn will be selling his house in Islington to help the cause - he must have made a few hundred thousand on that!

I agree that just firing money at the NHS isn't the answer. As medicine continues to advance and the needs of an aging population become more complex, it will keep swallowing more and more money forever.

It needs a step back and a total rethink, something akin to a national debate.

however, fruit didn't seem to understand how the private sector worked, hence the colourful explanation!

No of course I don't, never worked in the private sector in mortgages, no, not me.

well - if it wasn't you, that does explain it better!

Money won't solve the problems of the NHS.

Wasn't it Blair who increased VAT specifically to put the additional money (3%?) into the NHS. A hell of a boost, and yet it solved nothing.

Poor management. Poor admin protocols (3 letters for one appt. all sent by post!). And continual improvements in science that all cost loads of money.

We can never keep up.

I don't think the NhS can be saved to be honest. I wish it could but I think we're past that. It's been fucked about with too much, lots of stupid, expensive, ineffective tinkering all the time rather than real review and reform carried out infrequently but thoroughly.

The only thing that might stop the downward spiral enough to give breathing space to get it back on a good footing (along with other public services) is a situation where house prices and earnings come a lot closer together.

But I don't think that will happen to an extent or at a speed to be effective. That would ease pressure on public sector wages, lower costs of at least some of the supplies and services the NHS uses and might stop some staff having to leave to seek more lucrative/less stressful careers (I.e. if you have less stress generally by being able to live closer to work and have lower housing costs, you can absorb a bit more stress related directly to work).

I think the rot set in when they sold staff accommodation off to be honest.

The 7% pension contributions are so small as to be negligible, it is frankly astounding that people believe they are paying for Public sector works pensions.
Its about time financial literacy is taught at school.
Even the new STATE pension of £153 per week would require a pension pot of £264,000 for a Woman, and £247,000 for a man.
To put this into perspective, it would mean a person would have to pay around in around £450 per month for 30 years - this is for the STATE pension.
The financial illiteracy is frankly astounding in the Uk, all this "ive paid in all my life", if only they knew - perhaps they secretly do.
Education is required, the financial entitlement is bizarre.
Hence Labour and the magic money tree....