Do people really think no black British or immigrants voted Brexit?

[streetface]

Just that really. Laughing at some of the comments about Brexit being a racist vote from people who don't like 'brown people'.

I wonder how many of these people commenting live in predominantly black areas and are remotely aware of how many non-white people voted for Brexit. Lots of naive Mumsnetters.

Name 3 reasons.

1. Tampon tax. It's totally emblematic for what's wrong with the EU.
2. 180 million Euros (source BBC) it spends moving the whole parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg 12 times a year - totally unjustifiable.
3. The EU has done nothing to strengthen workers rights in areas like zero hours contracts. Most EU-derived rights were ones we already had in any case, and many statutory EU provisions are worse than ours - the EU has done very little for workers, at great cost.

That's just 3, but there are plenty of others.

I don't see that's what's heart-breaking at all. For me, it doesn't even enter the top...5 about what's so tragic about where we are as a country right now

Well, I suppose for me it's awful for two reasons. One, as concerns the referendum, is personally (I don't mean personally to me, I mean to many individuals) as I think many friendships and relationships have been damaged by the name-calling and much grief and anguish caused. But also, and this effects everyone, politically. I know everyone bangs on about Corbyn, but I really can't help believing that there are many people who have been driven to feeling that the left/Labour/Lib Dems really have nothing in common with them, having been called all sorts of nasty insults for the last year or so. It's hard to think that a movement which thinks you are despicable is really the one that shares your values, understands your situation, and is one that you should vote for.

I think the fact that you are so blase about this issue just highlights the huge gap in beliefs and values going on.

So I suppose what I am saying it is a good part of why the left is in such a state and why we have no effective opposition.

Even people who don't care about other groups of people being mistreated should presumably be concerned about that? Perhaps not?

Many of the same people who are voting for Brexit as also voting for Corbyn which seems strange to me.

I voted remain and will be voting for Corbyn

Yes; he is quite renowned for being a Euro sceptic so I suppose I wonder how it fits with the 'leave voters are racist' stereotype as presumably you don't think this about him.

Corbyn voted to remain, his reasoning was 'its better to be in and try and reform ' I agreed with him

I'm not convinced he actually ever put his heart behind remaining. It was a lacklustre affair. But anyway I suppose my question is then do you think Corbyn saw the error of his previous racist ways or do you just feel his feelings about the EU are not important?

Not all brexit voters were racist etegrasse

But that's what is being put about, is it not?

They were racist, OR stupid. Sometimes 'stupid' is substituted for 'misguided' or 'naive' but the gist is the same. So does this apply to Corbyn, too?

I presume so, but boiling down peoples motivations unless theyre opinions are clearly reprehensible under societal norms always creates problems and comes across badly, I only tend to do it when irritated, but then he must have decided that staying in was the lesser of the 2 evils, I think its healthy if someone feels able to change their mind on examination of the facts, certainly what I would personally want in a prime minister

*their

Street I've got that impression too (from some stuff I've seen on mumsnet).

Meh, the fact the economy is going to be in huge trouble, racism on the rise, EU citizens who don't know whether they're coming or going, than the Ireland question, the Gibraltar question, even the scottish question to settle, the fact our agriculture industries, care and hospitality industry are crying out for help IS heartbreaking. A few Brexitters ignoring all that and going on and on 'oh they called us ALL racist and thick' (when they didn't) or pretending the 52% are the great victims here, isn't at all heart-breaking to me. Quite the reverse.

You're right though, people just have very different priorities. There certainly is a massive gap in beliefs and values.

Looking at that list of 10:

1. EU are bossy and controlling

2. Waste of money. 1.2 billion pounds a month we're dishing out to prop up 2 dozen other countries.

3. No control of anything, the EU are the boss - God forbid we don't fall in line!

4. No control over our own borders - getting our little hands smacked if we don't let the 100s of 1000's of so-called refugees in.

5. Everywhere in Europe is in the Schengen zone, except us. We have to show our passports and get searched coming back into our OWN country. No-one else in Europe has to do that if they travel to another EU country and back again.

6. We can't make our own business deals without the bossy control freaks EU poking their oar in and taking a cut.

7. They are corrupt.

8. They only benefit the wealthy in the UK, and whilst it was a good idea 40 years ago, the EU does not benefit the UK now in any way, shape, or form.

9. Constantly told what we can and cannot do by the EU.

10. No longer fit for purpose.

1, 2, 6 and 9 are all the same.

5 is because, as has already been pointed out, our government didn't want to be in Schengen zone.

4 - We do have control over our borders because we are hardly letting any refugees in at all - did that escape your notice? We do have to let other EU workers in - that's what's known as free movement of labour. Are you confused about the difference between EU migrants and refugees?

I also find it hilarious that you are anti-immigrant but think it's a good idea to be in the Schengen area - perhaps you haven't thought it through?

8 - I agree that the EU does give too much money to wealthy landowners. It's one of the things I dislike most about it (there's quite a lot I dislike about the EU, in fact). But they do also provide a lot of subsidies to poorer, rural communities.

The main mistake you're making, though, is to assume that coming out of the EU will actually make things better. I am not a particular fan of the EU - I regard it as a bureaucratic, centralist, capitalist cartel. But I can't see how being out of the cartel is going to make things better. I'm pretty certain, it will make things much, much worse.

Meh, the fact the economy is going to be in huge trouble

There is a global financial crisis going on, for every economist saying it will be shit, there is another that say it will be OK.

racism on the rise,

There is a reports of "hate crime" on the rise, but yeah racism is becoming a bit more mainstream

EU citizens who don't know whether they're coming or going

Its the EU who are playing this game, not the UK we have said that they can stay ...

care and hospitality industry are crying out for help IS heartbreaking

So your fine with importing cheap labour?

Modern equivalent of sweatshops

Its the EU who are playing this game, not the UK we have said that they can stay

No she hasnt lurker, that is 1 of the sticking points, you probably already know that though because the rest of that post is inaccurate at best would hate to call it disingenuous bullshit because it is

histiny You are, deliberately or not, misunderstanding what I am saying.

If you don't see a problem for the left with many mainly better educated, wealthier, more middle class people on the left throwing insults and slurs at, and failing to listen to, mainly less educated, less wealthy, more likely working class people then all I can say is that I really don't recognise your version of left wing politics which, for me, has always been about equality and empowerment of working people.

I just cannot for the life of me see what is in any way left wing, egalitarian or progressive about the way you are dismissing the vilification of people who voted leave.

I suspect though, your attitude is not uncommon, and I think this is why the Labour party is in such dire straits. It's kind of left wing politics without the class or economic politics, which is never going to work really. What do you have left?- a bit of identity politics and not a lot else.

No she hasnt lurker, that is 1 of the sticking points

Fair enough, she has given the same non answer as the EU have done, its not a one way street in this, Eu citizens are priority in negotiations, if you think the EU wouldn't use them as a bargaining chip then your naive at best.

As for my other points, you can call it disingenuous all you like, but what is inaccurate...

Corbyn voted to remain, his reasoning was 'its better to be in and try and reform ' I agreed with him

I would love to know the proof you have for this he is supposed to be a man of his word and integrity and yet he has campaign and railed against the EU all his political life.

All the speeches written for him with " which is why I don't want to Leave the EU" were changed to " why labour doesnt want to leave the EU" and his right hand man and best buddy JM of course is staunch leaver....

Bit of a pickle....

"“We were joined on many occasions over the last 20-odd years in the lobby when we were doing our bit to oppose the various treaties and issues which were furthering EU domination of our country. Jeremy was always with us and John McDonnell was always with us,” said Hoey.

Stringer said Corbyn’s stance was “not his natural position or his historic position”

She quoted Benn at the time of the 1975 referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Economic Community: “Ask yourself about the European Union or any other institution: what power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable and how can we get rid of you?”

Membership of the EU would make it harder for a future Labour government to protect workers’ rights, renationalise the railways or maintain a universal Royal Mail service, argued Stringer

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/20/labour-eurosceptics-accuse-corbyn-reversing-position-eu-referendum

Now Remain campaigners say that pro-EU lines in Corbyn speeches were cut, his diary was scheduled to avoid Labour In events and any attempts to work with Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and Gordon Brown were overruled.

Furious In campaigners lashed out, claiming that the party leaders’ diary was deliberately light on pro-EU events and that he refused to campaign actively until the very final stages of the Brexit debate.

Corbyn had spent years criticising the EU as an undemocratic organisation which put corporate interests and neoliberal economics before the needs of citizens. He voted against Common market membership in 1975, and against the Maastricht Treaty and the Lisbon Treaty as an MP.

Whatever you think of the motivation of voters, if you keep on not consulting the majority who want out (as Labour did in 2007) you will see the rise of political parties like UKIP, or FN in France. UKIP, for now, have been defused. It'll be interesting to see where FN will be in 5 years, now that a more extreme leader is in place and Macron is in for a tough job.
Decry it all you like, short of getting rid of democracy, if you ignore what a large proportion of voters want you'll be storing up some unpleasant surprises in the future.

I would love to know the proof you have for this

blog.lboro.ac.uk/crcc/eu-referendum/uk-news-coverage-2016-eu-referendum-report-5-6-may-22-june-2016/#parties

Jeremy Corbyn was one of the only high-profile politicians who didn't engage in the hysterical project fear and false-promises as the majority of politicians on either side of the debate. In many people's judgement it's actually to his credit that he decided to treat the electorate like adults rather than a bunch of sub-juvenile halfwits who can be goaded into supporting one side or another through threats, fearmongering, false-promises and outright lies.

During the Campaign Corbyn was rated as by far the most trustworthy Labour politician on plus 17% with his closest Labour party challenger being Alan Johnson on minus 10%!

When people complain that Corbyn's fact and evidence based arguments in favour of Remain were not "Passionate" enough, essentially what they're saying is that they prefer the fearmongering nonsense, misleading rhetoric, false-promises, conspiracy theory nonsense, threats and outright lies spouted by the likes of David Cameron and Boris Johnson, and that in modern politics the truth is a shit debating tactic.

Its a C&P that explains better than i could

Macron is in for a tough job

Agree, Macron is in for a difficult time, Germany has already flexed their muscles.

I find it quite fascinating seeing a lot of my extreme left friends do mental gymnastics over the fact that they are championing an ex banker, full on neo liberal who is on the side of welfare reform as a moral victory of their ideology.

I get that it was against Pen, and ignoring the amount of spoilt ballots, it just seems as though they are more happy that they can ignore the underlying sentiment that ousted the 2 main parties.

I know there is a correlation between economic depression and the rise of right wing ideologies, but there is a backlash to the left wing ideology that is being ignored.

(sorry rant)