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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Seriously, what was ever so wrong with the EU that it has swayed life long Labour voters to vote Tory?

347 replies

Bearbehind · 05/05/2017 19:24

As above really.

Some of the swings to Tory councillors are mind boggling.

What was/ is so bad about the EU that makes this worth it?

OP posts:
user40788 · 05/05/2017 19:25

How do you know it is to do with Brexit? Maybe they just think Corbyn is a knob?

Original poster
Bearbehind · 05/05/2017 19:27

If it's not about Brexit I'm even more baffled.

Corbyn is a knob but that doesn't explain this shift to the right.

OP posts:
alltouchedout · 05/05/2017 19:33

Idk, I think a)people don't like/ respect Corbyn, b)people who wanted Brexit will vote Tory because they've made their hard brexit position v clear c) people who didn't want Brexit think the Tories will do better at getting the uk a 'good' deal than Labour d)people who've never lived without an nhs and welfare state cannot really comprehend what it might be like without them e) people see Labour as in turmoil and wonder how they could run a country/ council if they can't even get their party in order.

I am a Labour voter and I think the GE will be even worse.

RortyCrankle · 05/05/2017 19:34

I don't think it had anything to do with the EU. It's obvious that the Conservatives are currently the only viable party.

Labour are split and led by an unelectable leader, LibDems have turned into a one policy party determined to ignore the will of the majority who voted in the referendum and the Greens have some bonkers policies.

As for what is so bad about the EU, it's been done to death on the EU Referendum Board and suffice to say that we are fortunately on our way out.

Livelovebehappy · 05/05/2017 19:35

But that is the reason OP. Corby is a knob and people don't like him. Therefore it makes sense that people will vote Tory, because tbh there isn't any other credible party. The turnout was pretty low though, so I guess a lot of the non-voters are labour voters who dislike Corbyn but feel they don't have anyone else representing them, so have abstained from voting at all.

DoloresTheRunawayTrain · 05/05/2017 19:35

It could also have something to do with some Labour councillors "The working class can kiss my arse.I've got the foremans job at last." mentality. Some councillors have made a name bemoaning the state of their poverty riddled areas and slamming benefit cuts, zero hours contracts, food banks, child poverty and homelessness. Except that's all they ever do. They stand there like the spectre at the feast and actually do not want anything to change because then that makes them and the causes they claim to be so passionate about defunct.
There's a saying that the Conservatives keep their foot on the throats of the working class and poor but know just when to let them gasp for air. Experience has taught them Labour do just the same but with a two faced wringing of hands at their plights at the same time.
Labour have been riddled with infighting for many years. Long before Corbyn came along. I think it was on the eve of Clement Atlees win, that a sector of the Labour party tried to have him replaced as leader.
Maybe they'd rather see it coming?
I'm not a Conservative voter btw and have always been Labour but am considering switching to Green or Lib Dem.

WinnieFosterTether · 05/05/2017 19:42

Traditionally the left-wing position was to be anti-EU. It's Labour that moved on the political spectrum and left its voters. Not the other way round.
Added to that, you had Tony Blair telling people to vote Tory which will have influenced the Blairite voters.
Then there were all the scandals at local level. Our Labour councillors were embroiled in numerous fraud investigations.
Despite all of that, I still don't understand how they could move to the Tories but, looking at the results, I don't think they did. I think the Labour supporters went to the Greens, the LibDems and the Independents. The UKIPers moved to the Tories.

cardibach · 05/05/2017 19:46

Traditionally when? All the left wingers I know (almost all my acquaintance) are very pro EU.

WellErrr · 05/05/2017 19:47

Maybe Labour are just a bit shit?

DrDreReturns · 05/05/2017 19:48

It's not about the EU imo. It's because Corbyn is in charge.

LittleNellsDog · 05/05/2017 19:50

Labour actually got a seat from a Tory in my local elections.

SwedishEdith · 05/05/2017 19:51

Because we've moved into the era of personality politics. Facts don't win.

Jeremy Corbyn should do a Bernie Sanders, and go for broke

NoLotteryWinYet · 05/05/2017 19:55

There's certainly the fact that in Scotland, Davidson has been a staunch and good defender of the union, I'm sure that's what is behind the swing in Scotland. Kezia Dugdale isn't at all bad but she's not quite as good against Sturgeon.

NoLotteryWinYet · 05/05/2017 19:57

Also, I strongly believe when people say they don't 'like' Corbyn, they mean they don't like his personality, views, tactics, policy or team. Not just the cult of personality, that's a little too simplistic as like is a combination of all those things.

user1493022461 · 05/05/2017 19:59

Everyone has gone entirely mad, its the only answer.

Crumbs1 · 05/05/2017 19:59

UKIP undermined the labour vote. Dim people believed their lies. Then brave Mrs M appears like a caricature of a a 1950s headteacher and people start believing what she's telling them. Strong and stable repeatedly indoctrinates empty skulls who fail to look at fact and results of Tory government thus far.
Labour might have amazing policies but Mr C just doesn't present well in front of the camera. He's a bit Fungus the bogeyman to appeal to the ex UKIP ers who still seem to think they'll be better off under Tory Brexit when all the scroungers/Eastern Europeans/liberal lefties and Toffs get their come uppance. They believe Mrs T did well from a grammar (as opposed to being privately educated, which she is) and that she knows the words to Jerusalem.

squishysquirmy · 05/05/2017 19:59

I wonder whether some of it could be due to the difference between social conservatism, and economic conservatism?
I would expect a voter's opinions on economic conservatism to have a close relationship to their economic status, but social conservatism less so. So for similar numbers of voters who come from traditional Labour backgrounds to be socially conservative as from traditional Conservative backgrounds.
The Labour party are now seen to be socially progressive - and there will be plenty of traditional Labour voters (maybe the older ones in particular??) who don't like this. I think these are the people UKIP would love to target, and I think they represented a considerable chunk of the Brexit vote too.
Cameron's lot, whilst being economically conservative, were actually quite socially progressive in many ways (which was one of the few things I liked about them). This may have put off some voters more than austerity did. But now the Conservative party appear to be moving back towards a socially conservative position, as certain hardliners gain influence. So if a voter prioritises this more than economic policy, they will be tempted over.

The really sad things is that I think austerity is going to get worse, if anything. Sad

purits · 05/05/2017 20:00

But that is the reason OP. Corby is a knob and people don't like him.

and the Party know this but they haven't managed to remove him. It's not just Corbyn that people don't like, it's the shambles behind him too.

ForalltheSaints · 05/05/2017 20:18

Jeremy Corbyn is not a person I would want batting for Britain, as he could not even boot out Ken Livingstone from his party or others who have made unpleasant anti-semitic remarks. The Lib Dems chose the wrong person as leader sadly (Norman Lamb would have been far better), and the Greens positive idea of a referendum on the deal is seen by some as trying to reverse Brexit.

As for the EU, some of its leading people are seen as anti-British, the bile of some of the press having stuck, or seen as keeping on a gravy train.

Blowingthroughthejasmineinmymi · 05/05/2017 20:24

Waves at Bear.

Hi Bear.

Bear, I really feel for you Grin I see thread after thread of you in utter dismay at whats going on. When posters try and explain it to you - you diminish what they say, and say its not true, or its not in the stats.

Maybe its time you listened.....I mean this in a kind way I really do. Why would life long tribal labour supporters turn Tory?

Blowingthroughthejasmineinmymi · 05/05/2017 20:30

UKIP undermined the labour vote. Dim people believed their lies

Well the dim people are not voting for them now are they? The lies Confused you mean - the basic one and only point to get us out of the EU. That people voted for them - as a protest - take fucking notice of us vote - the dim people Hmm which the main parties did - and the Conservatives were forced into giving us a referendum.

Very dim but they seem to have got what they wanted. Grin

Original poster
Bearbehind · 05/05/2017 20:31

Why would life long tribal labour supporters turn Tory?

Er, that was the point of my thread blowing-why would they?

Don't feel sorry for me- just explain what was so bad about the EU they'd pull the trigger on their own head?

OP posts:
dementedma · 05/05/2017 20:33

DH is 54 and a staunch Labour voter all of his life. For the first time ever he voted Conservative in the council elections. We are in Scotland. There is no other opposition to the SNP.

NoLotteryWinYet · 05/05/2017 20:35

I feel similar denented, I wouldn't trust Corbyn-McDonnell not to go into coalition with Sturgeon and wave goodbye to Scotland without a pang.

Blowingthroughthejasmineinmymi · 05/05/2017 20:37

Bear I have seen thread after thread though with you asking for things to be explained and posters who are articulate and clear and intelligent
( unlike me) take lots of time to do exactly that to be met with the same comments over and over again.

I dont think you need it explaining again I think you need to learn to listen in a different way and put yourself in other peoples shoes.