Seriously, what was ever so wrong with the EU that it has swayed life long Labour voters to vote Tory?

[Bearbehind]

As above really.

Some of the swings to Tory councillors are mind boggling.

What was/ is so bad about the EU that makes this worth it?

Sorry I seem to have woken up quite angry this morning

I really really would like to vote Labour but things that prevent me are:

Antisemitism
Questionable ability to maintain a decent defence of the realm
Constant negative campaigning against the Tories, comparing them to the devil, just shows them to e lazy and out of ideas.
Dianne Abbots car crash interview which seems to suggest they do just pick figures out of the ether.
Questionable allegiances To terrorist organisations.
Probably willing to get cosy with Putin but ignoring Russia's views on homosexuality and domestic abuse.
The feeling that we'd almost get a re run of the brexit referendum.
The fact that a lot of senior MPs have already left instead of putting their faith in their leader.

As for Tim Farron

• deluding himself that the country wants another bloody referendum
• his obvious feelings about gay sex being a sin.

Won't be voting unless some very interesting and politically savvy independent gets some decent campaign literature to me before June.

I think being a life-long supporter of anything shows ignorace and bigotry.

I generally have conservative views but have voted for Labour and Conservative in the past, been a member of of the Conservative party but voted Lib Dem years ago too.

Labour have changed and are no longer a party for the working class and trying to benefit all. They're now for wealthy people to signal their virtue and preach to those 'turkeys voting for Christmas' how ignorant and stupid they are to be both poor and voting for the Tories.

I think the only bearing that the EU had in this was thinking who you'd like to be going in to secure the best deal for the UK. I'll give you a clue - it isn't the man who sits on the floor of a train and forgets about mobile phones having cameras.

The main reason for Tory success is that May is a competent leader and we need one to steer us through a recovering (from Labour) economy, revitalising the NHS and making tough decisions as opposed to offering extra bank holidays!

I'm sure there are some people who would even vote Tory to stick their fingers up at the smug hand-wringers who think anyone other than their left-of-centre politics must simply be ignorant and uninformed. In the EU referendum I voted to stay but when walking to vote I was still undecided. The incredibly annoying social justice warriors outside the polling station nearly made me vote leave, just for the pleasure of telling them afterwards. I voted to remain but told them I'd voted the other way anyway. The best of both worlds.

tl;dr

stop the hand-wringing. Phrases like 'turkey's voting for Christmas' and 'pull the trigger on their own head' just show your ignorance and inability to broaden your mind beyond your own narrow set of political beliefs.

The main reason for Tory success is that May is a competent leader and we need one to steer us through a recovering (from Labour) economy, revitalising the NHS and making tough decisions as opposed to offering extra bank holidays!

I don't think she's a competent leader, nothing she's done so far has shown competence.
Labour didn't cause the recession.
Absolute LOL at the NHS ever being "revitalised" under the tories.
And I don't understand how you can look at Tory policy and think it benefits anyone but the wealthy.

Its easier to portray others as hand wringers and virtue signallers etc than to face that your own views are selfish and do damage to others.

The Tories have been in power for many years while the NHs goeas downhill.

When is this revitalisation going to start?

It could also have something to do with some Labour councillors "The working class can kiss my arse.I've got the foremans job at last." mentality.

Some councillors have made a name bemoaning the state of their poverty riddled areas and slamming benefit cuts, zero hours contracts, food banks, child poverty and homelessness. Except that's all they ever do. They stand there like the spectre at the feast and actually do not want anything to change because then that makes them and the causes they claim to be so passionate about defunct.

There's a saying that the Conservatives keep their foot on the throats of the working class and poor but know just when to let them gasp for air. Experience has taught them Labour do just the same but with a two faced wringing of hands at their plights at the same time.

This ^ from DoloresTheRunawayTrain way upthread is a pretty accurate representation of why people are turning their backs on Labour.

And of course Corbyn & his shower of shit, and the big issue of the tories being the only party who seem to be serious about seeing through Brexit.
(Labour appear to have no clear direction on Brexit, other than the meaningless 'not handing the tories a blank cheque/holding the tories to account' and the Lib-Dems have styled themselves as a one-issue party, so the pro EU equivalent of anti EU UKIP).

It was strange voting Tory for the first time in my life on Thursday. June 8 will be the second and hopefully last.

I am a Europhile, love Europe (the continent), the people and believe the nations of Europe should cooperate, trade and be on the friendliest of terms with each other. I am pro-immigration but not uncontrolled immigration.

I voted Leave because the EU as institution is flawed by design. There is no appetite or mechanism to fix it.

Its core is based on a Napoleonic/Prussian ("Top Down") model where the Executive create laws and the Legislature is the approving body. The EU Parliament does not have legislative initiative.

I voted Tory because a vote for Labour prolongs the agony of the JC leadership. Unfortunately it seems to take the Labour party about 15-18 years to get back to its senses.

@TheMonkeyandthePlywoodViolin

You're another prime example of someone who thinks that anyone who doesn't agree with you must be selfish and ignorant - and you wonder why people are deserting parties which have these views in their droves?

@buttercupz

She told Sturgeon to get to fuck and won't let her disrupt EU negotiations. She's historically beaten the the opposition party by larger margins three times in a row and is likely to win a landslide majority in the General Election. She and her subordinates are steering the economy through troubled times with very impressive manouvering giving low unemployment etc.

You can either look to the failings of parties which align with your views, call anyone who doesn't agree with you selfish and nasty or perhaps try to learn from others, understand their point of view and grow the fuck up. I have a feeling you'll go for the middle option.

If I said 'I vote Tory because I'm rich, want to minimise my tax liability and am sick of paying for ever increasing numbers of people claiming money for 'social anxiety' or getting gluten free food on prescriptions', what would your arguement be?

FWIW, I think that everyone is selfish to some extent or another and that wanting to support yourself and your family in a society which allows people to succeed is a positive thing. Unless you're a commie, you agree with me to some extent.

I voted Leave

Blimey, you're brave saying that here....!

I did too though. And funnily enough I'm not an illiterate foaming racist either. I agree with most of your post.

Labour and their supporters need to come to the realisation that there are valid reasons that people are leaving them, and that simply calling them selfish and racist or whatever is not going to entice them back.

Enthusiasm, Copper....

The answer is much more mundane. During times of uncertainty, people harden their hearts. They look to protect and to blame. Immigrants, scroungers......

We've seen it time and time again. The Tories are just feeding those fears.... Waving the flag.

Sparticus thanks for proving my point.

And its spartacus.

The EU Parliament does not have legislative initiative.

But this is changing. Pariament is growing steadily in power; its role has increased with every Treaty.

You can either look to the failings of parties which align with your views, call anyone who doesn't agree with you selfish and nasty or perhaps try to learn from others, understand their point of view and grow the fuck up. I have a feeling you'll go for the middle option.

Why are you getting so defensive? Nothing in my post called you selfish or nasty for gods sake, I was just disagreeing with you.

If I said 'I vote Tory because I'm rich, want to minimise my tax liability and am sick of paying for ever increasing numbers of people claiming money for 'social anxiety' or getting gluten free food on prescriptions', what would your arguement be?

Er well then I'd definitely call you selfish and nasty, and ignorant to boot.

FWIW, I think that everyone is selfish to some extent or another and that wanting to support yourself and your family in a society which allows people to succeed is a positive thing. Unless you're a commie, you agree with me to some extent.

Ah hahaha so to have a social conscience and thinking of society as a whole rather than how a party can benefit YOU is communism now? Incredible,

If I said 'I vote Tory because I'm rich, want to minimise my tax liability and am sick of paying for ever increasing numbers of people claiming money for 'social anxiety' or getting gluten free food on prescriptions', what would your arguement be?

Are you saying severe social anxiety and coeliac disease arent disabling?

Not that people actually get disability benefits for social anxiety so thats a crock anyway.

What point was that?

I'm surprised that someone with a username like yours would vote for a party so anti-semetic.

"and it ' s Spartacus"

Proper nouns are capitalised and you forgot the apostrophe in the contraction. Awkward ...

Ah hahaha so to have a social conscience and thinking of society as a whole rather than how a party can benefit YOU is communism now? Incredible

This

I read Classics and English at Oxford. I just type in a hurry. Awkward.

What makes you so sure it is about the EU? I also seriously doubt life long "tribal" labour supporters voted Tory. They may not have voted at all or voted Lib Dem or Green. The Tories may have done ok because the UKIP vote collapsed. I can also never understand why someone is a lifelong supporter of any party. That implies they don't care about the policies and are just blindly voting for whatever their parents or whoever voted for. More thought goes into what people have for dinner than which party leads the country for the next five years.

Someone with a typo for a username should not criticise someone else's username IMHO though

[EU] Pariament is growing steadily in power; its role has increased with every Treaty.

Most people just want to trade freely and move around in Europe without drama. That's it. We don't want to be part of a federal state.

By the way. I voted remain (with a heavy heart) but am not devastated we are leaving. I also think more and more people looking at the antics of Juncker will be glad we are going.

Ah hahaha so to have a social conscience and thinking of society as a whole rather than how a party can benefit YOU is communism now? Incredible

Good stuff. What we are in now is a fight between love and hate, fear and hope.

Here is why some of my friends voted leave http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

The EU has many good points, but the money that is squanders is breathtaking.

(Remainer and Labour voter here)

That is awful to read Catfish what a colossal waste of money but more iimportantly it's criminal damage to our planet. Can't wait to wave goodbye to this bunch of theiving hypocrites