AIBU to have never felt degraded by the fact I don't earn "my own" income?

[Incognit0]

I'm fairly new to MN, but recently have read a lot of threads which seem quite judgemental about women who do not work outside the home, particularly once the DC are at school. I have never come across this attitude in real life, so wonder if MN is an anomaly, or if I'm actually missing something?

....."to pursue" is an active verb, surely? But if your interpretation is correct, Beagle, I'll stand down.

Although - a friend with whom I was at university has lived life as a perpetual student. She's done a lot of research, but never paid any tax. You couldn't say she's "pursued a career". Was her education just a taxpayer subsidised waste? Or do we value education more broadly than that?

I would go as far as to say that many UK qualifications are almost devoid of educational content. As we can see from this thread, people have been conned into believing that they are only as worthwhile as humans as the value of their assets.

I'm aghast at the critisism of the OP. She is educated, not being propped up by the state, and in a partnership marriage where her husband appreciates what she contributes to the family.

It's not the only respectable domestic arrangement, but it is a valid one.

Looking at this thread (and having seen this topic again and again on MN previously) it just makes me wonder why we need to justify ourselves and our choices to the Nth degree.

Many on here have said (correctly in my view) they don't care about the opinions of others about their life choices. Spot on.

But it seems to me that others need to validate themselves by belittling the life choices of others. That I do not get at all. Are we all so insecure that we need to push others down to elevate our own sense of worth?
Instead can we not just assume that everyone is making the best of their own personal situation?

I work part time but wouldn't be able to work without my dh looking after our dc due to unsociable hours. Actually if split, we'd both struggle to maintain the jobs we have now AND look after the dc. Most marriages, however you divvy up the work, rely on a certain amount of co-dependency. And yes I work, but I see my 'work' when I'm at home as far more important and worthwhile, raising our dc, taking them to school activities, helping with homework, music practice, cooking, looking after our home - far outstrips profit generating for the company I work for.

Are we all so insecure that we need to push others down to elevate our own sense of worth?

I think it's more than that. I think that a lot of people are incapable of objectively analysing their own situations and recognising/accepting the pros and cons of them. For there are pros and cons of everything in life! Put crassly, if you work, you don't spend as much time with your children as a SAHP. If you don't work, then you sacrifice your career prospects and you don't have as much income as a WOHP. (Disclaimer: There are always exceptions to this, but for the sake of pithy clarity, I'm going to put it in those terms). Everyone's personal situation is different, so they make the best choice for them.

The problem seeems to arise when people take the view that the choice they have made for themselves is the "right" one (and, concomitantly, that if others have made a different choice that they have made the "wrong" one). That just shows a complete lack of thinking or understanding that someone can be in a) a different situation from you and/or b) have different priorities/wants/needs. The whole bunfight is a bit ridiculous.

Many women are deeply insecure and that is not their fault: women are vulnerable to all sorts of less-than-clement external forces and pressures that can leave deep wounds and anxieties.

However, extrapolating from your own insecurities and projecting them on others is narrow minded.

It seems to be that there is a hardcore perspective on MN that the "ideal" family is one where both parents work and childcare is shared. "Equality" seems entirely dependent on matters such as the division of childcare and housework.

This is a very narrow view and takes no account of the fact that some jobs do not offer flexibility. Any DH who is not home every night to bath the kids etc is deemed to have "opted out" of parenting - a poor example, etc. The truth is that many jobs require people to go "above and beyond" in terms of time commitment. It easy to dismiss this as "opting out" until you've worked in those kind of environments.

Equality in relationships is dependent on mutual respect, not who does the housework or who earns more money. It is perfectly possible to earn more than your DH, have all the glory of a successful career but still feel powerless in your relationship for a whole multitude of reasons.

Haven't worked for 15 yrs and kids are now at high school. Not particularly looking to go back to work. Fancy some volunteer work or do some college course, maybe get back to some sort of studying. I have a lovely life, wouldn't necessarily advise it for young girls/women as if you can have a fullfilling career and support yourself independently than that's a good aim.

Not feeling great today, might go back for a nap.

Harvey342009

You need to start a new thread, this thread is on a completely different topic to what you have posted about.

Cafecat - when women have very busy professional lives they often feel powerless in their family relationships because they do not have the time to devote to nurturing those relationships. Outsourcing huge swathes of your private life frees up time for professional life but it is easy to end up not taking any domestic decisions yourself. And not being a decision maker is the very definition of powerlessness.

@Bobochic - Fair enough. In my experience, the women I've seen make poor choices with societal impact are all stahp. Everybody's experiences are different.

I would also resent not spending time with the DC...

However I would love to work more during school hours but the caring responsibilities mean that's impossible at the moment.

Yes to the posters saying opinions are moving to the right and people judge you on your economic output. Very sad.

Being able to work is kind of a luxury... some people also have their own disabilities which mean they can't work themselves no matter how much they want to!

Many of my fellow carer parents simply CANNOT work. What do you think they should do, judgy posters??

So have I got this right?

If you're a SAHP you're thick /lazy/obviously unhappy /not contributing to society /have got no sense of self worth/need a backup plan for when your husband leaves you for a younger model.

If you're a WOHP you're more intelligent /obviously jealous of SAHP/not capable of looking after your own children /struggling to be a good mum because dc is being brought up by nursery /childminders /grandparents /neighbour down the road.

Some great cliches on here.

Bobo - completely agree with your points. I'm in a similar position to the OP, mainly because if I know that if I was working the added strain on the family may have proved too much, given DH's work commitments. Yet he is by far the higher earner and our lifestyle has become dependent on this.

Uppity - what are the "poor choices with societal impact" that sahp make?

Being a SAH or working parent are both acceptable valid childcare choices in the UK if done properly and i think that anyone judging one or the other wholesale is being a bit of a dumbass.

Women being able to CHOOSE is pretty awesome.

In terms of which is better for children, I thought that research says that it is better for children to remain f/t with parent until 3 but that childcare is fine if managed properly.

One conclusion to be taken from this thread is that jobs that do not allow both parents to be home before bedtime every day should only be performed by the childless.

Merchant navy, fishing, anything involving travel abroad, army etc etc.

Do we have enough childless people to fill all these?

cory it's fine if men do those jobs.
They can be brilliant parents whilst not seeing their DC. It's the magic of a penis!

Whereas women must spend as little time away from their DC as is humanly possible. Rubbing toes. If they don't The Sky Will Fall.

Do folk here do the lottery? If you won big on would you keep working in the job you do for the same hours?

@Cafecat I was replying to bobo chics post one page up (see below). In the muslim/Hindu communities I'm part of where English language skills are often poor, one or two stahp often means the child becomes vulnerable. The community elders are trying to get sahp in work/volunteering so they integrate in society and allow children to enjoy being part of society. It's quite well known that ill education, poor language skill, and stahp is tied in these communities especially for women.

And, tbh, I see women earning lots of money and making terrible choices every day and their children and wider society suffering because of those choices...

bamba I wouldn't give up, no. I'd use the cash to fund one of my projects which I can't get off the ground .

DH could give up tomorrow really. He's squirrelled away enough dough IMHO. But in he goes...

I don't agree, Carl. The recurrent issue on MN is whether DC are with a parent or with a third party, and that is the recurrent issue in society. The fact is that DC in the UK spend ever less time with their parents and siblings and ever more time in third party care/School.

@Bobochic - why is that a bad thing? Dh and I spend time with dc after work and on weekends and we ensure it's all quality time. No point spending more time with them as a stahp if you're just going to be abusing them like my mum did to me.

The lack of time with family in a protective setting (obviously abusive families are not protective but they are not the majority) is one of the single greatest drivers of poor child and adolescent mental health.

@Bobochic - where is that information from? Could you send a link please?