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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to have never felt degraded by the fact I don't earn "my own" income?

999 replies

Incognit0 · 30/04/2017 19:58

I'm fairly new to MN, but recently have read a lot of threads which seem quite judgemental about women who do not work outside the home, particularly once the DC are at school. I have never come across this attitude in real life, so wonder if MN is an anomaly, or if I'm actually missing something?

OP posts:
corythatwas · 01/05/2017 17:22

Aren't we dealing with two separate arguments here:

a) would the world collapse if I wasn't there to carry out what I do?

b) am I allowed to derive any self-esteem from what I do?

because as far as I can see, pretty much the same reasoning can be applied to salaried work, the stuff that so many MNers approve of

In answer to a) we would get on if I were to lose my job; we would also cope if dh lost his. Plenty of people manage on one salary; plenty of people manage on benefits.

But I do not feel that this means that either my job or dh's is worthless.

Marmalade85 · 01/05/2017 17:23

So it seems as if you have a SAHP you're paying for then you get to check out of family life completely.

Spikeyball · 01/05/2017 17:23

Marmalade, if you think all sahm are lazy, I think you don't have a clue about the reality of some people's lives.

MommaGee · 01/05/2017 17:24

Annie you're right. Your sense of self worth should be about who you are and the difference you make in the world, not some arbitrary judgment about what you do for work.

Why would a Dad need 24/7 carers for their children? Are they never home? Do they work 18 hours a day every day? My Dad was a single parent, my mom wasn't around to coparent. He worked full time and we had child care for those hours then came home and parented

ballroompink · 01/05/2017 17:24

I don't judge - everyone has to do what works for them and what they need to do to do the best by their families. I work FT and know I am very fortunate in that I love my job. Both DH and I work locally and work a 37.5 hour week with very occasional travel. We share all parenting responsibilities and as a result of all these things, I know I'm lucky. The fact is, DH's pay rise this year has just tipped us over into bringing in roughly 50% of our total income each. For the rest of our marriage, I've been the higher earner. Not working has never been an option. It sounds nice to be a SAHM and be going to the gym or yoga, meeting friends for lunch, doing a college course, etc. But for us, being on one income would mean we couldn't afford any 'extras' at all. No holidays, no meals out, no spare cash to replace an appliance or pay for a load of car repairs.

In addition, I had horrible PND and anxiety that was really improved by going back to work. I wish I could say I loved the first three years of 5yo DS's life but thanks to my mental health, most of the time I didn't. Working FT kept me going. I have a lot of admiration for SAHMs who love it because I've always been very aware I'd be terrible at it. I had to deal with quite a bit of judgement from DH's very traditional parents re: going back to work. All the usual 'I don't know why people have kids if they're just going to palm them off on someone else' / 'Children are so miserable in childcare' comments. Didn't exactly help my anxiety about my parenting when I felt so judged by them about our choices.

RoseGoldProsecco · 01/05/2017 17:26

Incognit0 - more likely he'd just remarry...

RebelRogue · 01/05/2017 17:27

He doesn't check out of family life completely. At the weekend he'll do the shopping,tidy up,whatever odd jobs,take dd out and do stuff with her for hours so i get time to myself. He will do bedtime and read with her and play with her.
But most days he leaves at 6am and is back at 6-7 pm. Dd wakes at 7 and goes to bed at 7. Everything she needs done needs to be done by then(actually 6 simce that's when she starts her quiet time) and he's just not here to do it.

MommaGee · 01/05/2017 17:29

ballroom we should all just do what we need to get through. You did. That's enough

RebelRogue · 01/05/2017 17:30

Plus he only just came back friday after working abroad for a month. He goes where the work is. And as a 47 yo in a self employed quite niche skill he doesn't have much flexibility to pick and choose.

needsahalo · 01/05/2017 17:30

He has at least 3 companies and other business interests which you can't just "juggle" around kids. Nor can you just jack it all in to focus on the DC as there are processes to go through and a lot of people would lose jobs

So what exactly is the contingency if something happens to you?

I understand the concerns - and accept that some people are stay at home to facilitate exactly this situation - but really, if you weren't there, he would dealwith it, wouldn't he? That might be by throwing money at it. The point we are making is much bigger or are you pretending not to see that?

Incognit0 · 01/05/2017 17:35

RoseGold - well maybe he would remarry, but that wouldn't happen overnight.

I know many many men in similar positions and if their wife left them tomorrow they would be in a total crises. They would either have to totally rely on relatives or pay someone to move in who could hit the ground running. It's as simple as that and that kind of nanny is not cheap.

OP posts:
GetAHaircutCarl · 01/05/2017 17:37

Or they could do some parenting themselves Shock.

StrawberryMummy90 · 01/05/2017 17:38

Both my parents worked full time after I was born, I have massive respect for them and they had no choice financially.

However, I have no memories of them as a child. I hated going to my child minders and have vivid memories of me waiting by the garden gate counting down until my dad collected me. I do feel I missed out on time with my parents and I know my mum wishes her circumstances were different so she could of been a SAHM.

My own experience has shaped my view on this, I would never work whilst I have the choice to be able to be a SAHM and I am very grateful to have that choice. I could work if I wanted to do, we have family who would be willing to look after DD, but I never would choose to do this. When I'm old and reflect on my life I certainly don't want to regret spending my life working when I could of been raising my children.

Having said that, I pass no judgement on what other families do. My mum is the most amazing woman in my life and my love and respect for her is unconditional. This would of been no different had she been at home.

StrawberryMummy90 · 01/05/2017 17:39

OP in this circumstance wouldn't your husband find a more family friendly job so he could be with his children more?

Gini99 · 01/05/2017 17:39

I sadly know of a family where the mother did die quite suddenly. It was a massive shock. Her husband did indeed have to hire a live-in nanny who could chauffeur, cook, help with homework and everything his wife had done pretty damn quick. He was an options trader but had no "option" to be flexi at all.

Not really on topic but I find that astounding, those poor children. To lose their mother and then have a stranger parachuted in to 'replace' her whilst their father carried on as usual.

evieyoung · 01/05/2017 17:40

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OwlOfBrown · 01/05/2017 17:42

Her husband did indeed have to hire a live-in nanny who could chauffeur, cook, help with homework and everything his wife had done pretty damn quick.

Yeah, but presumably only one live-in nanny, not three!

HowcanIearnthis · 01/05/2017 17:43

I am honestly baffled by some of these arguments - that I must be lazy, that I am wasting my brain, that I am setting a bad example to my child and that I could not possibly be as busy as anybody who WOH.

Yesterday, I looked after my non-napping toddler from 6.30 am to 7pm. Once she was in bed, I logged on and did pro bono human rights legal research until midnight. I quite often do this - I'm not paid for it, but I volunteer the equivalent of 2 days/week for a well known NGO. It feels bloody busy to me - there's definitely no going to the gym or meeting friends for lunch, as has been implied here. Some of the sweeping statements on here are astonishing. How can any of us possibly know how busy or lazy somebody else is? Surely everyone's circumstances are unique?

Also a bit surprised by those claiming some sort of morally superior status because they WOH. I mean, if you're a paediatric oncologist, then fair enough, but most of us aren't. When I was a City lawyer, we did some really morally questionable deals - things that were terrible for the environment or for the people who would use the services at the end of the deal, etc. I did it and I'm sure to the outside world it looked like a successful job that had status but I can't in all honesty say I was proud of the substance of my work. I'd be quite embarrassed to tell DD now what it was that I was actually working on then. By contrast, I'm quite proud to tell her what I work on now, and I get to use my brain and my professional skills. Those of us staying at home aren't imbeciles. We're perfectly intelligent women who often just had to make difficult choices in difficult situations, and indeed, many of us have found a way to use our brains and do something to set a reasonable example to our kids. We're not another species. The irony is that if I were to tell my lawyer friends that I was doing human rights law for two days a week, many of them would think that was great - interesting work and a great balance between work and family. It's bonkers that because I am happy to do it late at night without being paid for it, it goes from being a desirable occupation to something which according to this thread, is a bad example to my child.

Finally, I'm going to be absolutely honest here, and I apologise in advance to the many perfectly reasonable posters who have not lectured SAHMs on this thread but who have on the contrary, been very sensible. With the greatest of respect, I really do struggle when I am lectured about my SAHM status by someone who, it then turns out, works, or has at some point in their career worked, PT, or who then goes on to say that they were able to go and pick their kids up from school every day. Well, of course if I had been offered the chance to WOH 3 or 4 days a week rather than 6, or to finish in time to do the school run, I'd still be bloody working - lots of us would, wouldn't we? That option wasn't on the table. We all just have to do the best we can with the choices we have at the time. I''m genuinely happy for you that you had your flexible working request approved, but honestly, it doesn't mean that you are somehow a better person then those of us whose requests were turned down. As I say, I fully appreciate that many of the posters on this thread have been perfectly reasonable and have said nothing of the sort.

Gini99 · 01/05/2017 17:43

That's really rude Evie. She hasn't said that at all. There is nowhere where she has claimed it is a full time job to plan holidays and clean the house. She has just said that it works very well for their family and has enabled her husband to be fully committed to his work and achieve highly. It's clearly a very wealthy household and she has provision in place if he leaves her.

gillybeanz · 01/05/2017 17:46

Carl

How could they parent when they were at work?
They'd have to use childcare or relatives if they have them.
My dh would have needed all this if I wasn't able to do what I did.
Up until 2 years ago he's have needed somebody to manage the home and dd commitments.
As he travels and works evenings there would have had to have been a nanny who also travelled when need be and chauffeur/ accompany dd to her commitments. The nanny would have had to have had industry knowledge of dd/ dh work, not many would be able to do this.
If I had worked my dc wouldn't have had the opportunities they have.
That's not to say that wohp aren't able to give their dc things, it's just different.
We used to see more gps at drop off, pick up, and ferrying round to activities than we ever did parents.
This is fine if you have the help, if you don't you have to do it yourself or dc go without.

Incognit0 · 01/05/2017 17:48

Maybe this is the issue and why I don't feel judged as a SAHM then because people know what DH is like and many of them have husbands who are the same.

He does parent when he's here but he doesn't just do one job and earn a salary related to that. Although he's self-employed so has some degree of flexibility in that sense, its never that straightforward once things get to a certain level. He is involved in a lots of businesses and investments, in addition to his own companies and its international.

OP posts:
HowcanIearnthis · 01/05/2017 17:49

Evie, you may have a fantastic career but that was really, really unpleasant.

gillybeanz · 01/05/2017 17:51

evie

You sound as jealous as hell Grin
Bad example to your children because you aren't prepared to work for nothing, whilst paying somebody else i.e childcare for the privilege.
And you say a sahm has dumbed down.
Oh, dear.

Incognit0 · 01/05/2017 17:51

Evie - you obviously have not read the full thread. If DH left me tomorrow, I would not be "toast" and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

OP posts:
RebelRogue · 01/05/2017 17:56

Evie you have issues.. that have nothing to do with the OP,so don't take them out on her.

But maybe i should shut up and just revel in the idea that i am obviously 10 times smarter now than i was 10 months ago. Fuck yeah!

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