To think breastfeeding has made no difference to my dd and is massively overrated in terms of benefits?

[Placeanditspatrons]

I've nearly driven myself to a breakdown feeding my dd. She is 16 months now and I'm still feeding. She has been ill more times and worse than my formula fed from four months son. She does not recover any faster and she catches anything I get and gets it worse, despite supppsedly the antibodies passing to her and either preventing or reducing the severity of the illness.

I know it's anecdotal and the studies say overall bf babies are healthier but how much healthier? I mean I we talking one less cold? One less ear injection? Statistically? Many of my friends have said similar. Again anecdotal but I can't help wondering - after the colostrum which is more important I guess - does it really make any noticeable difference?

I think, in our situation, BFding DD1 and FF DD2 made bugger all difference.

DD1 had dreadful colic from 3 weeks, was always very unsettled until weaned at 12 weeks. She suffered with excema and constipation. To this day, she is definitely more prone to sniffles and bugs than DD2.

DD2 was FF from birth. Always a very contented baby. Never suffered with any gripes, or colic. Very, very healthy, and is to this day.

There is no evidence at all that bf babies unsupplemented with vit d are more likely to have increased frequency of illness.

No, but vitamin D deficiency has been linked to worse health outcomes in very different settings in adults. Vitamin D deficiency is widespread in the UK, as in most parts of Europe, and nearly everyone needs supplementation at least in the winter months.

I was told by the milk mafia breastfeeding group that by formula feeding my baby I would make her develop slowly and get ill more often. I went home and sobbed. I wish I had known what utter bullshit this was. There are so many factors that affect the health and wellbeing of a child that to make mums feel it's all about how they feed is inaccurate and unfair. It really makes me cross.

Weirdly round here, there aren't many baby groups for young babies /new parents except for bf support groups, of which there are loads.

Of 5 new parenting groups listed by my local council, all 5 are for breastfeeding. A quick Google search shows 2 more also. I live in a small town, and there is literally a group for every day of the week.

I don't begrudge the support, but it that's the only support on offer for new parents, which in my area is the case, where do I go for support on parenthood, sleeping, feeling overwhelmed etc? Because I can bet that whilst bf support groups focus on feeding, they also provide advice and support for other areas of early parenting. My husband and I are excluded from every support group in the area.

Yes, we could go to ones for toddlers etc, but that's not the same is it? And if they were supportive enough for new parents, bf support groups wouldnt be needed.

I'm not saying that breastfeeding mothers shouldn't have the support they need, but that all new parents should feel supported, and that some of the groups should facilitate this.

Vit D supplementation makes sense, as I said, FatLittleWombat. There is evidence that it can benefit Northern European (inc UK) populations. As I said. My point was that the previous poster was out of order in offering an explanation to a mother whose baby had frequent illness that missing out on supps as an infant had made him ill.

greyelephant, yes it is weird the only support on offer is in BF groups. Look harder. Toddler groups are often full of babies as well in my experience. Try children's centres. Churches. Library. Ask your Hv. Your town will be the only one in the uk which has nothing but BF support, if you can't find anything.

Trixie, that group needed complaining about. It would absolutely not be part of their ethos to say such rubbish - if there was a leader or an organisation running it, they should know someone or some ppl there are spouting bollocks. I do understand that it's hard to complain when you've been upset in that way :(

Really? 7 baby groups and all for breastfeeding only? Are you sure?

Why though should I have to start looking really deeply for support though, when it is offered up so eagerly to people that breastfed? Yes I may be able to find something, but without an obvious and easily accessible source of support, like the bf groups are, many exhausted new parents who desperately need the support will give up.

Anyway, if those groups are so full of babies and support for babies, why bother with the breastfeeding support groups? Instead they act as an exclusive group to which a substantial amount of new mums and all dads are excluded. It's horribly cliquey and leaves many without easily accessible support.

And yet, somehow people say that breastfeeding isn't supported in this country. Ha! It's the most supported bit of parenthood I've seen.

So do all these groups have "breastfeeding" in the name?

In a modern society with access to clean water and a general healthy diet I don't think it makes the blindest bit of difference and as your children get older you see this more and more.

I'm very sorry you have been made to feel like this, op. I was too. The pressure that mw and hv put on us about this at what can be a vulnerable time is routinely ignored or denied. I got to a point when I felt that my baby relied on my health and wellbeing more than it relied on the milk I was struggling to provide. You lasted far longer than me and are pretty heroic for doing so. Mw and hv made me feel like giving my baby formula was tantamount to giving her heroin. It doesn't matter if that was obviously not their intention- I felt like that. How stupid.

Just wanted to point out as well that the effects of feeding might not be immediate but a life long thing. We are seeing a massive rise in cancer rates - op you don't know what we don't know in terms of what you have done to protect your baby's health in later life. And no im not saying formula gives babies cancer (!) im saying that it might be a marginal benefit over a lifetime rather than a magic immune fix in the first year.

greyelephant ...libraries, churches, children's centres, health visitor, nct, toddler groups, community centres, swimming pools, will all have info on groups or actually run them. If the extent of your looking is to check your council's website, and doing anything beyond that is 'looking deeply', then you are going to be disappointed.

So breastfeeding prevents all types of cancer does it? Exactly the kind of nonsense new and vulnerable mums don't need. My dad was breastfed and, due to the era and area he grew up in (pre- war) was severely malnourished as a child. He died of cancer. My mum was breastfed. Didn't stop her smoking and dying from the effects of it. Breastfeeding is not the only factor in good lifetime health. And it certainly doesn't stop you being hit by a drunk driver. Be realistic!

"So breastfeeding prevents all types of cancer does it?"

Nobody said anything of the sort,

You see, I think this is what usually happens. Someone says "Well, we don't actually know what the long term effects of different sorts of infant feeding are- we just don't have long term data. We might even discover that it has an effect on cancer risk" Someone else interprets that as "Breast feeding prevents all cancer" and the next person hears "You don't care if your child gets cancer when he grows up"

Exactly Bert - I knew there would be someone that didn't understand what I was saying.

A marginal health benefit over a lifetime bringme - probably looked at at the population level too. Not stop one particular person smoking/getting lung cancer! Dear me...

As I said above breastfeeding worked very well for me , one of the biggest pleasures of my life actually but it should be up to every woman to decide. The UK has the worst breastfeeding rates in Europe and yet some of the longest maternity leaves so clearly if tehre is pressure it's the other way - something is persuading all ehse women to give it up very quickly indeed. I don't feel there is a breastfeeding mafia. if there is they are the worst mafia in history as their success rates are pathetic.

The biggest benefits for me breastfeeding were convenience and financial. The health benefits I'm sure are there but tbh the best thing for me was being able to feed my babies myself - it's very empowering. I wouldn't like to think how much money I saved from not buying formula! And no washing and sterilising and making up of bottles was great.

The thing is you feel like a failure/feel like you are going to fail then you will fail (especially when you are struggling mentally with new baby)

As for groups when DD was born there were loads (she's 8) - now my friend who has a new born is struggling for groups

The biggest difference is the children's centres / most of ours have closed down and groups are by invite only. There are waiting lists for some of the church groups.

Sunshine....worse than the misinterpretation is the way we will now see on mumsnet posters saying 'the breastfeeding supporters on mumsnet tell new mothers their FF babies are going to die of cancer'....and when asked where someone has said that, will say 'it's all over - they say it all the time.'

Ridiculous, of course, but the lesson is watch your language.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time OP.

I agree that there is immense pressure to breastfeed. It's true that most women stop after a few months, but the message throughout all your contact with HCPs and society in general is that the best mums breast feed, and the implication is that anyone who doesn't is therefore failing their child in some way. I always expected to breast feed as it is the norm in my circles, and I went to the breast feeding workshop before birth - it was a complete waste of rose-tinted time, which did nothing to prepare me for the difficult reality of it, and I still feel massively let down now, years later. The reality was no milk coming in for over a week and a baby in SCBU with severe dehydration because I was so focused on breastfeeding exclusively at any cost. It somehow never occurred to me that it was the feeding that was the problem, as everyone had told me the latch was fine etc. I know from local parenting groups that this kind of experience is scarily common. I ended up mixed feeding, and felt really proud that I'd achieved that, but about 3 months in I still had a really sneery health visitor making faces when I told her I was giving some formula.

There are health benefits to breastfeeding, but I do agree that the magnitude of these benefits is overstated. I think generally we're talking a few percent less likely to get ear infections and respiratory infections etc, and there is no robust evidence of any effect on IQ (despite what a lot of people might say). This becomes less and less important as time goes on, when diet etc. become much more significant. In the UK, this really amounts to very little difference for an individual child, and is definitely not worth causing damage to the mother or child's health. It's possible that your 16 month old is getting some protection from breastmilk, but I think it's likely that this small effect is swamped by being the second child and exposed to more bugs.

Just wanted to point out as well that the effects of feeding might not be immediate but a life long thing. We are seeing a massive rise in cancer rates - op you don't know what we don't know in terms of what you have done to protect your baby's health in later life. And no im not saying formula gives babies cancer (!) im saying that it might be a marginal benefit over a lifetime rather than a magic immune fix in the first year.

I actually agree with you that priming the immune system properly in the first few years is crucial for a healthy, properly balanced system that functions properly. I agree that modern life is massively skewing the developing immune system, and I suspect this is at least partly responsible for the (I think terrifying) increase in allergies and autoimmune disease of recent decades. There is an immune component to cancer development, so it's theoretically possible that this imbalance could contribute tot his too.

However, I think you are placing far too much emphasis on breast milk. This is one factor in many that can have an impact. It's becoming clear that a healthy microbiome is critical for immune health, and beyond weaning age diet is likely to have a much bigger effect here. Early exposure to gut pathogens like rotavirus is also likely to have a bigger effect. It's also becoming more and more clear that endocrine disrupting chemicals (in pretty much everything from plastics, to cosmetics and food) are having subtle but significant impacts on human health and development. Other factors such as exposure to sunlight, exposure to other bugs, overuse of calpol, how much sleep the child gets etc. will all likely contribute.

I do think you need to be careful about your choice of words around such an emotive subject. Bear in mind that the large majority of mothers want to breast feed and start to, but then can't for a variety of reasons, so inflating the 'risks' of not breastfeeding will not make you any friends.