UK economy slows to 0.3% and inflation is at highest level for 3 years - brexiters are you still happy?

[brexitstolemyfuture]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39743129

Or regret your choice? Brexit the gift that keeps on giving :(

Also, again, it is the UK's decision not to count people in and out. We are not part of Schengen so have always been able to do this if we chose to but the government couldn't be bothered. If you move to most other EU countries you must register on arrival. Don't blame the EU for the UK's failings.

The hysteria on MN about political results not being what people want amazes me. The problem with a democracy is that other people sometimes win.

Am very happy with my decision to vote Brexit. No regrets or doubts at all. Inflation and economy obviously fluctuate all the time, so that's hardly a big WOW. Chances are it will have changed again in the next few months.

The problem with a democracy is that other people sometimes win.

Here at 8:55 we see George III speak some pretty prophetic words to John Adams about democracy. We, of course, know what awaits the upstart country.

CopperRose I am not 'rebranding' opinions that are not based on evidence and facts as prejudice, that is the definition of prejudice.

Yes you did.

Your post was in direct reply to mine.

My post contained no prejudice, just a description of basic psychological & social behaviour in the micro & macro context.

You replied with:

Ahh, the 'feelz'. Much more important than facts. How silly of us to question prejudice.

Ergo, you created a strawman by rebranding my post as being about you questioning prejudice, when it was nothing of the sort.

One you seem to miss the point about depressed wages spectacularly; average figures never truly represent anything, they are inherently inaccurate due to being averaged. The London/south east figures skew the overall average upwards

The median average UK salary is currently £27,531 while the City of London is the highest-earning region, boasting an average salary of £48,023. Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/18/how-does-your-salary-compare-with-the-rest-of-the-country-5511194/#ixzz4fd4gYzlS

Figures from the Office of National Statistics (ONS) show that the North East was the worst paid region in the UK in 2013 with an average salary of £24,084. In London pay is £35,238 a year, and the UK average is £27,017

In order to achieve these averages, some workers will earn an average of say £100k, and others around £12k - guess which regions get the higher figure?

Average north west house prices are around £180k against a UK average of £218k, but that will be of little comfort to the struggling first time buyers in London having to look at average prices of nearly £500k.

That's why average figures really don't affect voters in the way that the experts would like them to.

Yes, average salaries vary across the country. Nobody has disputed that as far as I can see. That's due to the distribution of industry and has nothing to do with the claim that was made earlier in the thread that immigration has suppressed wages. That has been shown to be nonsense by detailed research by independent institutions such as the LSE, covering a decade of detailed data from all over the country, adjusted for regional variations.

CopperRose the post you made responded to me, where I was addressing a poster who specifically said that we shouldn't try to tell northern voters the facts about immigrations because those facts don't support their opinions and they'll only vote for parties that endorse their unfounded beliefs about immigration.

Empirical research on the labour market effects of immigration in the UK suggests that immigration has relatively small effects on average wages but more significant effects along the wage distribution, i.e. on low, medium and high paid workers.

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

This isn't something new and even during the EU referendum it was widely acknowledged that it hit the lowest paid disproportionately more, however as usual this macro "fact" was generally ignored with the " net contributors" rhetoric

average figures never truly represent anything, they are inherently inaccurate due to being averaged.

Steady on....

future I don't earn an average UK salary and my house isn't worth the UK average. Do you know anyone who is average? I understand that averages are a useful tool, but they really don't help on an individual or micro level, when people's lives are actually affected by reality not averages.

I was addressing a poster who specifically said that we shouldn't try to tell northern voters the facts about immigrations because those facts don't support their opinions and they'll only vote for parties that endorse their unfounded beliefs about immigration.

That was me, I think. I've only just come back to thread. My point was that voters won't vote for someone who dismisses their concerns as 'unfounded'. If you want to persuade people that their beliefs are mistaken, that is not the way to go about it.

Maybe their beliefs are unfounded and they have just swallowed a lot of right wing rhetoric. OTOH, maybe they do have genuine reasons for thinking what they think, based on their own personal experience. The only way to find out is by listening to what they are saying rather than telling them it can't be true because the LSE says so.

Isn't it funny the way MN views experts? When banks, businesses and experts tell us to vote to remain, they are the saviours of all that is right and good and should be worshipped as gods. When businesses and banks and experts tell us that a conservative government is better for the economy, they are greedy money grabbing devil spawn. Just musing ...

Isn't it funny the way MN views experts? When banks, businesses and experts tell us to vote to remain, they are the saviours of all that is right and good and should be worshipped as gods. When businesses and banks and experts tell us that a conservative government is better for the economy, they are greedy money grabbing devil spawn.

Perhaps one must weigh the value of their knowledge against their intent?

Perhaps one must weigh the value of their knowledge against their intent?

Exactly. Absolutely all of these people come from the classes that benefit most from EU membership. They benefit from EU research funding, advantages for business, cheap labour. They're wealthy enough to make good use of visa free travel and their children are more likely to be on Erasmus or emigrating. Housing and wages are not things that bother them or that they take into consideration.

It would be a very brave academic who came out as 'leave' as it would effectively end their career. As most experts are academics to say experts all recommend remain gives a distorted view which doesn't account for bias.

Exactly. Absolutely all of these people come from the classes that benefit most from EU membership. They benefit from EU research funding, advantages for business, cheap labour. They're wealthy enough to make good use of visa free travel and their children are more likely to be on Erasmus or emigrating. Housing and wages are not things that bother them or that they take into consideration.

It would be a very brave academic who came out as 'leave' as it would effectively end their career. As most experts are academics to say experts all recommend remain gives a distorted view which doesn't account for bias.

While this certainly aligns with the point about intent - I was sort of approach from the opposite end...

That while yes, self interest may factor into their stance, their data and experiences are not invalidated by it.

But at any rate, I don't know that there is necessarily a problem with either side's rational stance....just that it seems that there may have been some who based their stances on irrational feelings.

Exactly Flavia, just like Gordon Brown didn't.

One What is so good about governments in the EU? Belgium was without a federal government for over a year...the country has 5 or 6 parliaments, all wanting different things...having lived here for over a decade, I can't see what is so wonderful about that. As for harmonisation on terrorism, again, in Brussels, not having several separate police forces might help, and you might like to note where much of the intelligence on terrorism comes from..namely the UK.

Exactly Flavia, just like Gordon Brown didn't.

Yes, precisely. The Labour party has been failing to get the message ever since then. It was clear in the strength of the Leave vote in some of the traditional Labour heartlands. Not helped by the lacklustre, barely there Remain campaign run by JC et al. They really will have only themselves to blame if they suffer the consequences in June.

I shall be getting the snacks in on 8 June and settling in with Mr Dimbleby for what I expect to be a fascinating night's viewing. Though it would be hard to top Referendum results night for a great night of TV.

Belgium was without a federal government for over a year...the country has 5 or 6 parliaments, all wanting different things...having lived here for over a decade, I can't see what is so wonderful about that

You have only lived there and seen it Scary, we cant take your word here we need to instead revert to facts and stats on this.

😂

This is true Blowing!!

The deplorables narrative worked out so well for Clinton didn't it.

I shall be getting the snacks in on 8 June and settling in with Mr Dimbleby for what I expect to be a fascinating night's viewing. Though it would be hard to top Referendum results night for a great night of TV

Indeed

However I do think its going to be exciting this election is very much up for grabs. I wont be at all surprised if the conservatives dont actually win.

The deplorables narrative worked out so well for Clinton didn't it.

Again a good point, but perhaps not as it appears; in the end, will Trump supporters have "won" anything?

Blowing It was 541 days, well over a year and the country carried on functioning, which begs the question of the necessity of a government, especially when the bureaucracy (which they have down to the finest of fine arts here in Belgium) carries on regardless.