Mistaken identity and race

[Furchesterbaby]

I know this might be a sensitive subject. I'm genuinely not wanting to cause any offence but it's something that I've wondered and wouldn't exactly feel able to speak about.

I work for a very large organisation, it's very multicultural. On a number of occasions over the years there have been incidents where two people that are black have been mixed up with one another, and it's turned quite heated and was deemed a race issue. I.e them accusing people of thinking all black people look the same.

One example was there were two guys, both were black, both had long dreads, very often new people would get them confused with one another. They were very similar in that they were the same height, both wore glasses, I knew them apart, but could see how a new person might get confused. One of the men would get very angry and once in a training session had a big rant about it and it being racist. The most significant thing in all of it was that both men had the same, fairly unusual first name, so it really could have been just mixed up surnames.

I've seen similar over the years and it's always deemed racial ignorance. It happened a few weeks ago where a young trainee was sent to ask a question, she approached the wrong person and was snapped at "I'm not X, X is the other black person".

The thing is, over the years I've regularly been mistaken for other women with the same hair colour. I worked on a team for many years with another woman, we were both red but the similarities ended there, yet we were always mixed up. There's a lady on my team now and we are the same height, hair and both wear glasses, people are always coming up to me asking if I'm this other person.

My son gets mixed up with a child at school, another boy until teachers get to know them.

So my question is aibu to think that this isn't about race?

I need to say, I'm not denying the racism and stereotyping goes on even now. I'm not trying to pretend it doesn't happen or that it's not an issue anymore. I'm not going to pretend that as a white person I can fully understand how it is to be discriminated against because of my colour. I've literally just felt at times that these things weren't about that, but I accept if there's something where I'm missing the point.

That sounds bonkers. It a large organisation surely it's common for there to be some identity mix ups. I certainly mix people up from time to time, regardless of race.

YABU

It IS about race. There have been experiments to show that people perceive others of a different race to look the same. I will do a rudimentary Google now....

Try this

The problem is that we as white people dont know what it's like to live as a black or not white person in the U.K. What you perceive as overreacting or being over sensitive may be perceived by the black person as one in a massive long line of racist micro aggressions. Experience shapes the way we perceive other people and the world and if your experience is that people are racist; stereotype you; mix you up with other people of your ethnic background; make assumptions about you based on your race etc then you are going to be more alert to those things happening, and sometimes see it when it may not be precisely there.

That is very true gallavich.

I was also going to say it could well be about their race. I did it recently, we have a man from an African country already working with us and a new starter arrived from same part of the world, meaning they do look and sound similar, similar build, facial bone structure, accent etc. I assumed the new guy was the old guy for about 10 minutes before I twigged. I was really embarrassed and totally owned what had happened (thankfully I didn't show myself up to anyone else)

White privilege is being oblivious enough to these issues to start a Mumsnet thread asking why these people being so sensitive.

What WishfulThanking said is true.
But for me it means it is not because people are racist that they have trouble recognizing the two men, but because it is genuinely harder for them to differentiate two black men than two white men (assuming these person are white). Add the fact that all usual characteristics (haircut, first name...) are the same. I can understand it.

Sometimes it's racist. Sometimes it isn't. It's possible for two people of the same race to look similar.

However I really don't think it's extremely offensive. It's accidental ignorance and it needs education rather than insults.

I say this as someone with a biracial child. I wouldn't be offended if someone mixed him up with someone of a similar background who genuinely looked like him. Mixing them up when they look nothing alike and share no features other than race is different

I get both sides. I live in Korea and I'm white. I've had teachers and colleagues mix me and other white people it. I get it, it happens, it is true that it's harder to distinguish people of different races as others pointed out and linked studies to.

But it gets really tired really quickly. I'd imagine if you're in your own country and you've dealt with it from day one, it's way worse.

When I first came to Korea though, it was harder for me to tell Korean people apart. After being here five years, I don't find people to look similar to each other at all. It's all about how much you are exposed to that race.

My husband is Korean and we always talk about how people of each other's races look more similar than people of our own race. He always says white people's face shapes and noses all look quite similar to him whereas I find it harder to distinguish Koreans because they generaly all have similar hair. It's interesting.

So I don't think people are racist for mixing people up, it is a thing that happens naturally, but I can see why people get frustrated so people should be a little more careful.

I think seoulsurvivor nailed it.

“YABU

It IS about race”

Perhaps you could explain why DD and another girl were always mistaken for each other throughout primary school/brownies/guides. Both of them are white have long hair and glasses and are very slim. When they weren’t being mistaken for each other people who didn’t know them thought they were sisters.

So while it might be about race I don't think it is necessarily racism. Seoulsurvivir puts it very well.

Erm, they are both white so what are you on about? If you had come on here and said one is brown and one is white so why are they getting mixed up, your post would have made more sense

That people of the same race mix up people of their race too Wishful

Nobody is disputing that, though

I think it depends on context. I used to work somewhere with two young black women who were about the same build and height but those were the only real similarities, facially they were very different and had totally different mannerisms and voices etc. One was a junior office assistant, one had a more senior professional role. The CEO came in one morning and asked the professional woman to fetch some more mik for the kitchen - part of the job of the junior woman. IMO that was racist.

However, where I work now, there are two women who are different ethnicities but are similar height wise and facially, same hair colour and style, similar skin tone and wear very similar clothes with similar mannerisms and accents. I admit if one of them is in my peripheral vision, I often mistake her for the other one. To me, that doesn't feel racist. But maybe it is.

Seoulsurvivor but you aren't a persecuted minority in Korea are you? There is no history of violence and aggression towards white peoples in Korea. You find it tiresome - can you imagine why a black persons might find it aggressive?

I remember having the conversation in the 6th form with a friend from Hong Kong. People told her she was indistinguishable from the other girl from Hong Kong. They weren't anything like each other. One was shorter and perhaps what you'd call dumpy, one wore glasses, facially they were totally different.

We concluded that in her words "English" people take a lot of assessment by hair, because that's an easy thing to fix on. She then added a slight red colour to her hair and the comments stopped pretty much.

I've noticed this with family resemblances too. If a child has similar hair to a parent then people often say they look alike even if facially they're more like the other person.

So in some ways it is racial. In some ways it isn't.

I'm sure it IS very much about race.

Just because white people occasionally get mistaken for each other is irrelevant.

I get told I look like a different person of a different race (celebrity, not someone I know). People also get my race wrong.

There was an interesting article I read on Buzzfeed called How to Tell the Difference Between Me and the Other Black Girl

YOU might think the two men in your office look similar, but they probably don't feel it themselves.

I get muddled with another girl at work and we look nothing alike... But we're the only two Danes. Must be the funny names that confuse them Luckily we both find it funny, but then again, we don't have to deal with day-to-day racism.

I suppose the question is, how do you solve these situations / improve how they are handled. And that is where calling it "racism" gets in the way of finding solutions. In a large organisation it may perhaps be possible for HR or some appropriate group to arrange some sessions where people can discuss how when mix-ups happen, why they happen, and what can be done to reduce them. And in those sessions it is appropriate to acknowledge that lack of familiarity with a racial group different to your own will increase your rate of mixing up people from that group.

Try suggesting something like this - focussing on the potential value of reducing mixups both amongst personnel and clients of the organisation; whether they be face to face or on paper / electronically (ie broaden the issue and demonstrate its relevance to the organisation).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect

It's called the cross-race effect- seoulsurvivor has summed it up as an experience.

It's well known, but that doesn't mean you can't try to avoid it- so there are ways of debiasing yourself, such as really making sure it doesn't happen (so similar to learning 'foreign' sounding names very carefully) and also if you spend a lot of time with that race, you get better at distinguishing, basically.

It is about race. And people should be aware that it is easy to see people of a different race to you as more similar than people of your own race. And people should be aware that for a person of a minority race this is tedious.
But shouting "racist" at those who make a genuine mistake is not helpful.
Maybe your workplace needs to invest in some high quality training on unconscious bias and diversity both to help those of the majority race understand more and to help those wuth minority race and ethnic backgrounds feel valued.

They may look alike, they may not. There's a huge amount of supposition and some personal agenda on this thread. Without seeing the two people, no-one can say whether it's racist or whether they simply look or sound alike. If the only similarity is that they have dark skin, confusion may be based on their race. If they look alike, the fact any confusion is hardly racist, even if they are from a minority background.