Mistaken identity and race

[Furchesterbaby]

I know this might be a sensitive subject. I'm genuinely not wanting to cause any offence but it's something that I've wondered and wouldn't exactly feel able to speak about.

I work for a very large organisation, it's very multicultural. On a number of occasions over the years there have been incidents where two people that are black have been mixed up with one another, and it's turned quite heated and was deemed a race issue. I.e them accusing people of thinking all black people look the same.

One example was there were two guys, both were black, both had long dreads, very often new people would get them confused with one another. They were very similar in that they were the same height, both wore glasses, I knew them apart, but could see how a new person might get confused. One of the men would get very angry and once in a training session had a big rant about it and it being racist. The most significant thing in all of it was that both men had the same, fairly unusual first name, so it really could have been just mixed up surnames.

I've seen similar over the years and it's always deemed racial ignorance. It happened a few weeks ago where a young trainee was sent to ask a question, she approached the wrong person and was snapped at "I'm not X, X is the other black person".

The thing is, over the years I've regularly been mistaken for other women with the same hair colour. I worked on a team for many years with another woman, we were both red but the similarities ended there, yet we were always mixed up. There's a lady on my team now and we are the same height, hair and both wear glasses, people are always coming up to me asking if I'm this other person.

My son gets mixed up with a child at school, another boy until teachers get to know them.

So my question is aibu to think that this isn't about race?

I need to say, I'm not denying the racism and stereotyping goes on even now. I'm not trying to pretend it doesn't happen or that it's not an issue anymore. I'm not going to pretend that as a white person I can fully understand how it is to be discriminated against because of my colour. I've literally just felt at times that these things weren't about that, but I accept if there's something where I'm missing the point.

I don't think it is racist, unless there's more to it. At my work, one of my colleagues made mixed up 2 similarly built black employees. He was really embarrassed about it. Thing is, they guy who made the mistake is from a middle eastern background and he himself has been muddled up with another guy of a similar ethnicity by another colleague.

I'm white, and there is another woman working there who is very similar to me superficially- same height and build, similar age and very similar hair, but facially I don't think we look alike at all. I have been mistaken for her on 3 different occasions!

Racism is very real and in the UK. I'm just not sure genuine mistakes are racist.

My partner, my son and sometimes by extension me have had racist abuse said to us. It's hateful and venomous. I think calling a genuine mistake racism diminishes that somewhat.

For me, it wouldn't be about race. It isn't multicultural where I live and work and I get people confused all the time! We have 2 ladies at work with the same first name and I sometimes get confused ie 'this needs to be passed to Clare Smith...oops no I mean Clare Jones' I've worked here for 10 years so I do know who is who.
I also got 2 brothers I'd know for years mixed up. They don't even look alike!

Like others on the thread, I have face blindness to a certain degree and rely on indicators like hair colour, skin colour, hair style, clothes, size. I literally cannot bring anyone's face to mind, including my children and my husband, if they are not in front of me. If I think of a picture of them instead it helps a bit but still not very good. When I was at school I was asked to hand out the homework once, I had been in this class for a year but still wasn't sure who was Marie and who was Fiona when they both had similar hair and make-up.

I do live in fear of being called racist, as it could easily happen, it makes me quite anxious. I am white. It could just as easily happen because I have thought "short woman, long blonde hair" - in fact it has and I have cheerily greeted someone I thought was a school mum and was someone I knew much less well from somewhere else. If I made that mistake because of skin colour rather than hair, is it then racist?

I agree with Seoul that it is about exposure.

I lived in Asia for 16 years in HK and Singapore. At first I found it very difficult to tell them apart from each other especially the men as they seem to all have the same short haircut and glasses. I have heard some people say that Singaporean/ HK Chinese people all look the same but after a short while I could see that they in fact have as many differences in their appearance as we do. It is about exposure.

The funny thing is that we europeans think we look very different from each other because we have varying colours of hair, skin tone, height, weight and eye colour. When I lived in Asia I was told that we all look the same. So, it works both ways.

Silkpyjamas that surprises me and is completely ridiculous. But I'm not denying it happens.

David Haye, Dizzee Rascal and Lenny Henry look nothing like each other and I don't really see how anyone could think they did.

I spent a good chunk of my early childhood growing up in Kano, Nigeria and I have always wondered if this is why I find black people very easy to tell apart - I don't find them remotely similar, however give me 2 white blond, blued guys - like at an office I once worked at for a week temping and I struggled all week to tell them apart as I found they looked way too similar to each other and I just couldn't tell who was who! I often really struggle with names and faces of white people I meet and I always wondered if it was due to growing up in a different culture (I am white) so I like Seoulsurvivor's take on it.

I used to work in an a&e with very few white staff. Me and another white girl would be confused all the time, several times a day. I was about twice her size (height and weight!), had short curly hair wheras she had a long distinctive plait and she had totally different face shape to me. And we were in different roles with different uniform.
It is about race but it isn't racist IMO.

Seoulsurvivor has nailed it on the head

Some people on this thread are very frothy

I can understand some people might see it as being racist.

I've had people argue with me or my parents about the fact that there's no way I'm from England because of the way I look,I don't find it racist but it does piss me off when some stranger try's to argue with me about where I must be from,like they know better than I do

I think it would probably be 50/50 amongst my friends some would find it very racist others wouldn't bat an eyelid.But were all individuals and if someone is upset by it and feels like it's a racist remark then any newcomers to the company need to be made aware so hopefully it doesn't happen anymore.

Because I'm interested to see if I unknowingly do something.

Ah... I think Harvard has an online racial bias test? Maybe that's what you're looking for?

This isn't about race in my opinion.
Both have very similar features and the same first name!?!
In my previous job I constantly got mixed up with another girl (both white, dark hair, similar body sizes) I appreciate it is frustrating, and I got annoyed that some people I worked with for 6+ years couldn't be arsed to work out who was who. Even when she was on mat leave I still got called her name. In the end one woman combined both our names into one and called us both that
Some people do just struggle to tell the difference between people regardless of skin colour

To be honest this thread has opened my eyes a bit.

I think I was being a bit blinkered and taking incidents purely on face value.

I can see why if you're a minority and have faced racism, then are met with comments such as looking like Lenny Henry when you're not even black, let alone looking like Lenny Henry, well I can understand the need to highlight it.

It's surely only racist if someone CAN tell people apart, but chooses not to make a distinction between them.

If someone genuinely can't tell which person they are talking to - how is that racist? If, say, the two were standing side by side, and it was possible to make an immediate comparison and say - "Oh yes - That's A and that's B", but when you only see one then it is harder to tell. I used to find this with identical twins that I worked with.

You wouldn't blame someone for being colour blind, or unable to discern particular sounds - how is that different to (genuinely) misidentifying people? If it comes with exposure and practice, then they'll eventually learn, but like any other acquired skill, some people achieve it more quickly than others. It's not necessarily racist.

Namechange

There are tests for facial recognition/blindness, too. Some people just can't "see" faces - their brains aren't wired for it. These are just the first that came up when I googled - don't know how good they are.

www.faceblind.org/facetests/
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34709004

Struggling with facial recognition is surprisingly common. And culturally, a lot of us find it hard to stare at someone's face to help us remember what they look like, so the obvious stuff like hair and glasses become props.

I struggle with facial recognition, but I didn't realise until recently. I should have realised sooner, because I still remember not recognising my own boyfriend after he had a haircut when I was a teenager.

I used to teach in a very multiethnic, multicultural environment and a lot of the names would naturally fit with one ethnic group, so it was easy to learn all the names of the children in my class reasonably quickly. Then I moved and the new school was mostly white. Almost all the girls had the same hair style and similar shades of dark blonde colour. Even though I am white, I really struggled to learn all their names because the only hint a name gave me was the child's gender. I was teaching nearly 300 children a week in total - classes of up to 32 kids, sometimes 3 classes in the same year group. It was really easy to make mistakes when they weren't sitting in the right place in my seating plan and I used to live in fear of them swapping seats and me not noticing and being caught out.

I think it is always best to err on the side of kindness and not judgement when people make mistakes. Racism is a very serious accusation and not to be made lightly.

If they share the same first name, your HR dept can make it policy to ask for people by surname to help prevent mix ups.
The last big company I worked for also had a policy that we had to memorize the face and name of every member of staff from the company 'rogues gallery'. then if we saw anyone wandering around that we didnt recognize we called security.

Yup, what @SeoulSurvivor said.

I am absolutely terrible at telling people apart and remembering faces - I find it really difficult - but I remember names. My OH never remembers names (even of his friends' wives who he knows really well) but he will recognise someone he met once at a wedding three years ago with absolutely no trouble.

The guy(s) in the OP need to stop being so precious - we don't do it on purpose- we are not racists - he needs to get over his prejudice and learn to help people out rather than criticsing them for something out of their control. If I sense that someone is hesitating over my name I tell them in a non judgemental way rather than getting on my high horse about how they should know who I am.

SeoulSurvivor I think you put it very eloquently.

I work in a large team where myself and the only other fat woman are regularly mixed up. We're both tall, same skin tone and forceful buts that's where the similarity ends: different hair, different jobs, different accents and very different names. I do not believe our race is an issue just that people remember us as fat. However our historical experience of prejudice does effect our/my reaction to this.

I think seoulsurvivor is absolutely right. And I have to confess I've sometimes felt deeply embarrassed when I've failed to distinguish between two black people - I'm not very good at remembering faces anyway, but obviously the thought that you might be the sort of person who thinks all black people look the same is mortifying.

I can also completely see that if you're a black person on the receiving end of this, along with all the other day-to-day racism you experience, it must be extremely irritating.

Surely it isn't racist unless it is intentional or detrimental to those involved? While I'm sure it must be pretty annoying, being confused with someone else is not uncommon. Being over sensitive when it happens won't make the situation any better.

Perhaps your organisation needs some 'unconscious bias' training though, just to be sure.

I don't know whether the specific incident at OP's work is racist or genuine mistaken identity.

I do know that I look Asian (actually mixed race) and I am quite frequently asked by complete strangers if I am related to . So I can see why OP's work colleagues are aggrieved.

I think some people are misinterpreting what I wrote.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be upset by it. Or indeed that it's not racist. I actually do find it racist in some cases, like when people don't make the effort to examine their own prejudices when it comes to race.

When I came to Korea, I made a huge effort to get to know people and to make sure I didn't mix people up. In the OP's case, I think people should do the same - to realise they have an intrinsic bias towards their ow race and then to try to overcome it by making more of an effort around groups they easily mix up.

Please don't conflate me saying that it is easier to mix people of other races up to me saying I don't think this is an issue, because I do and I feel like I stated that quite clearly.

I did this. A couple of years ago, I forgot my wallet in the M&S near my office. I went back later to pick up the purchases which had been set aside for me by the cashier. I went up to completely the wrong woman and started engaging with her like she'd have a fucking clue what I was talking about.

It was a very small M&S. I was a regular. There were two black women who worked there and aside from being female, middle-aged and non-white, they looked nothing alike.

But, in my head, I had clearly just thought "the black one" when remembering our earlier conversation. And I got the wrong person.

I think it was racist in my particular case. I had serious, serious fucking words with myself afterwards.