Mistaken identity and race

[Furchesterbaby]

I know this might be a sensitive subject. I'm genuinely not wanting to cause any offence but it's something that I've wondered and wouldn't exactly feel able to speak about.

I work for a very large organisation, it's very multicultural. On a number of occasions over the years there have been incidents where two people that are black have been mixed up with one another, and it's turned quite heated and was deemed a race issue. I.e them accusing people of thinking all black people look the same.

One example was there were two guys, both were black, both had long dreads, very often new people would get them confused with one another. They were very similar in that they were the same height, both wore glasses, I knew them apart, but could see how a new person might get confused. One of the men would get very angry and once in a training session had a big rant about it and it being racist. The most significant thing in all of it was that both men had the same, fairly unusual first name, so it really could have been just mixed up surnames.

I've seen similar over the years and it's always deemed racial ignorance. It happened a few weeks ago where a young trainee was sent to ask a question, she approached the wrong person and was snapped at "I'm not X, X is the other black person".

The thing is, over the years I've regularly been mistaken for other women with the same hair colour. I worked on a team for many years with another woman, we were both red but the similarities ended there, yet we were always mixed up. There's a lady on my team now and we are the same height, hair and both wear glasses, people are always coming up to me asking if I'm this other person.

My son gets mixed up with a child at school, another boy until teachers get to know them.

So my question is aibu to think that this isn't about race?

I need to say, I'm not denying the racism and stereotyping goes on even now. I'm not trying to pretend it doesn't happen or that it's not an issue anymore. I'm not going to pretend that as a white person I can fully understand how it is to be discriminated against because of my colour. I've literally just felt at times that these things weren't about that, but I accept if there's something where I'm missing the point.

at all the minimising going on here by people who've never experienced racism.

Happens on every race related thread on MN seoul. Every single one.

It IS about race. There have been experiments to show that people perceive others of a different race to look the same. I will do a rudimentary Google now....

It happens, yes. It also happens in other parts of the world where white people are in the minority. We all look the same to them too. I used to live on another continent where most people were not white and DH and regularly got mixed up with other random white people who looked vaguely similar, mainly because we were all white and roughly the same age and spoke English.

Until you become more familiar with someone it's a regrettable but fairly common phenomenon and not one we can do much about. It's part of the human condition.

HeyRoly that sucks. This site is far more liberal than most, but still people brush it off with 'well I can't help it' or 'my eyesight is bad'.

OK, fine, but at least acknowledge that people have said it hurts and feels bad.

Possum

It happens, yes. It also happens in other parts of the world where white people are in the minority. We all look the same to them too

So what? In a work situation if you have to interact with any colleague , new or otherwise, and you are not sure who they are, you should make an effort to find out who they are.

Around 250 people work in my office- I don't know all of them. If I have a reason to deal face to face with someone I don't know, I check their photo on the internal staff director. If I still can't be sure who they are I will ask someone in their department who I do know which desk they sit at.

I was constantly mistaken for another girl when I started my first job. We were the only staff members below the age of 18, both blonde, same height, same build, similar faces and both training at the same time. It was funny at first but became tiring very quickly when you felt like you knew someone well, only for it to turn out they thought you were your colleague. Or people were constantly talking gibberish to me because they thought I was her, or coming back after 5 mins to see if I'd done work that she had been assigned an hour ago, and me only 5 mins ago.
It was annoying, but it was because we looked similar. The way you describe these two people suggests that they look very similar... not just because of their skin colour, but obviously that helps! Would I have got mistaken for this girl if one of us was a different race? Well probably not. Does that make them racist? Of course not!

people brush it off with 'well I can't help it' or 'my eyesight is bad'.
OK, fine, but at least acknowledge that people have said it hurts and feels bad.
I do acknowledge that it must be very irritating - more so if your automatic assumption is that it is deliberate or lazy.
So I would also ask that those on the receiving end acknowledge that the person doing it might genuinely not be able to help it as they have prosopagnosia, a visual impairment or autism and it is very hurtful to be accused of being lazy, not trying hard enough or being racist.

A lot of ignoring of people on here who are saying they have witnessed the same when white people are in a minority but experiencing the same situation with being mistaken for each other. I guess because this largely disproves the 'racist' accusation, it's easier to ignore it than actually acknowledge that yes, maybe it really has got nothing to do with racism at all. There's so many bigger life issues to stress about than the fact someone has confused you for someone else fgs.

This is normal! When developing as a child we rely on facial recognition which is something that develops from our surroundings - it was talked about recently in an unconscious bias training session I went to

That is ironic, livelovebehappy....I was just about to comment the same about you, ffs! One of many people on here with their own agenda.

I used to work somewhere where I had to leave a photo ID gate when I checked in and collect it when I clocked out each da. The security staff (all Asian and African) were constantly giving me back the wrong card and especially so with DH because he is bald with glasses. A quick glance at the board and they'd grab the nearest ID card sporting any white, vaguely middle aged balding bespectacled bloke would be assumed to be him! Of course we should make the effort the familiarize ourselves with people's faces properly and I never suggested otherwise. I was just pointing out that it works across all races.

Livelovebehappy Are non white people incapable of being racist then?

I wrote a rather long post above attesting to rather the opposite.

No. Of course non white people are capable of racism. But if someone non white got me mixed up with someone else white, I wouldn't jump on the ' this is racist' bandwagon. I would find it amusing at best and maybe a little irritating at worst, but I would not assume that the person was racist against me. Which is why I can't see why the same wouldn't be the case in reverse. I really really have no agenda - just my opinion on it, which I would hope people could respect. Just seems to be a lot of negative energy and stress about something, that to the majority of people, just doesn't have a 'racism' label on it. Fgs, people on here with conditions that create problems in identifying people are being shouted down as apparently being fake and making excuses, because apparently the truth is they are obviously not trying hard enough to overcome their medical conditions, and of course the race issue trumps everything else it appears.

Are you white?

Agree with seoulsurvivor. On a college course I was regularly mistaken for one of the other students. We were both White, of similar build and with curly hair. Only the Black students had trouble telling us apart.

Yes it's about race. But not necessarily racist. However pretty annoying if it happens a lot I'm sure.

Ffs lovelifebehappy , must be great in your little bubble of white privilege [ignorant as fuck].

I've always worked in places where whites are the majority. For me (I'm white) this means the non-white members of staff are easier to recall whereas when new I tend to get all the white women in their 50's-60's w short hair mixed up, all the young white guys who are tall confused w each other, all the podgy middle-aged men who shave their heads muddled up. None of that is racism, it can just be hard to match names to faces perfectly.

I can see why people in the minority might take it personally, but I doubt it's racism.

lovelifebehappy I am not sure I understand your point, are you saying it is racism and it can be applied to white as well, or that it is not racism because it can apply to any minority regardless of race?

Wishful, my little bubble is okay thanks. I think that the upcoming generations are far more aware of racism and how bad it's been in past decades/generations. The older generations were born into a world where racism was rampant, and unfortunately they have kept the mindset that it's okay to be racist, and they account for the majority of people who still have racist tendencies. We've come on massively in the UK in recent years, and I think the future is going to be a lot different in future decades in respect of people's attitude to race. I don't see skin colour when I speak to people; everyone is equal, but I'm not deluded enough to know that racism still exists, only I don't see it in this post. It's just an example of people seeing issues where none exist.

Somethingborrowed, I think I've made it clear I don't think it's racist in respect of either situation. Racism is a deliberate act of discrimination, but I just don't see that the people in OPs post are being deliberately racist. Do you? Im basing my views on that. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist. It does. But to start over anylising everything said to people of a different race to this extent; it just detracts and takes away the focus from the real racism that happens.

I'm not sure why people think that just because something is unconscious, it's not racist. Why does it have to be deliberate?
For example, a black person might find that they are turned down for work more often than an equally qualified white person. or a woman might be paid less that a man for doing the same or similar job. But it's easy to hide because
A) you will never get two people with identical CVs, so no one will ever think that a deciding factor may have been race (or gender)
b) there are lots of black people with jobs (and women paid more money), therefore that means there's no racism or gender discrimination.
Livelovebehappy the real racism that happens is constant diminishing of people's experiences, the consistent things that make it that bit more difficult to get and education, a job, a promotion, whatever, and knowing your kids are going to have the same struggles. That people think you might be that bit less trustworthy, bit more likely to be violent, less likely to be intelligent. And then people are more on the defensive with you, are more scared of you.

im an only child, but when I was at school I spent a lot of time patiently explaining that several other people weren't my siblings.

ddssdd I could have written your post, I bet I look exactly like you as well!

@DevilWearsPrimark you do have appoint. I think the worst type of racism is the unconscious ones. Those are invisible to the person doing it and its hard to challenge because most are ingrained in the psyche. For those who believe they are politically correct and more liberal hate it when they are challenged for their racism. Most, because it's not done on purpose but it does happen and it's uncomfortable occurrence. It does not mean they should get a free pass.

www.voice-online.co.uk/article/woman-shuts-down-male-colleague-who-mocks-hood-black-names
I remember reading this a while back. It's follows a similar thread to this. The unwillingness by some people to not bother with either learning someone's name or face. This, excluding those who have disability that prohibits them from doing so.

I don't think it's racism.

I am white and used to work in subsaharan Africa. It was a fairly small office, less than 50 people. Even after a year, I was constantly mistaken for another girl who was French, had brown eyes (mine are blue), was a good 8 inches shorter, etc. I think people just hadn't seen enough white, European faces to discern the finer differences. I took no offence. There is a enough genuine malice in this world that there is no reason to imagine more.

@Quencher, absolutely, I don't think most people are malicious. Thank you for getting my point because I don't think it was written very well!

@EmpressoftheMundane where do you think "genuine malice" comes from? It always rooted in the minimisation of other people's circumstances and the belief that others are lesser, which is reinforced be unconscious beliefs. You don't have to think someone has set out to offend you to challenge them, and you don't need to be rude to do it either.