To be fuming with DDs secondary school over 'fuck boy'.

[Shitonmyshoe]

Just that! For those who don't know, girls now call sexually aggressive/promiscuous boys 'fuck boy'. My daughter has no interest in lads and is only bothered about her GCSEs (very studious but outgoing kid). Today a lad in her year placed his index and middle finger to his face and wriggled his tongue between them (classy) towards my daughter. She told him, 'get out of my face fuck boy' which has resulted in her being punished via a detention. For background she is less than 5 foot in yr 10 and he is well over 6 foot and obviously trains (shithouse wall). Apparently, reason DD was punished was because she was being aggressive 😂

CopperRose Thank you for responding to my question.

My response to it is this.

In primary school children who do this do not know what it means. You explain to them it's totally inappropriate.

By secondary school, they should know exactly what the gesture means. It's aggressive and sexual.

What she said was understandable under the circumstances and appropriate - yes, it is the only kind of language these people understand.

If I was her teacher I'd give her a ticking off about bad language and insulting behaviour, because rules are rules, but in my heart of hearts I'd think she was right because it's exactly what I would have done in that situation. I would not punish her further.

I'd report the boy to the head and do my best to ensure that he received an appropriate punishment. My dream would be a few days in an exclusion unit being told exactly why that kind of behaviour is not tolerated in decent society. I'm not a teacher so I wonder whether schools have the resources to do that sort of thing. But they should because they have a role in moulding young people to be good citizens. He's just a silly teenage boy. If he did that kind of thing as an adult he might find himself in serious trouble, mightn't he?

As a mother to a son my first priority will be teaching him to respect women over and above him demanding they give him equal respect

Please tell me where I said I would teach him to demand respect?
Teaching a child not to act in a certain way or to accept a certain level of behaviour is not 'demanding respect'.

Hmm, quite, sailorcherries. Care to try to actually answer my post, or indeed, specifically the part of it you started your post by quoting? Rather than extending the derail it pointed out. Thanks in advance.

The definition of sexual harrassment -
harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks.

Note, it states 'typically' not exclusively.

The definition of obscene -
(of the portrayal or description of sexual matters) offensive or disgusting by accepted standards of morality and decency.

Therefore the phrase 'fuck boy' used derogatively to pass comment or judgement on a males sexual promiscuity is an obscene remark, which is sexual harrassment as it is unwanted sexual remarks. Like the word slut.

But you are going to disagree and say that the term fuck boy is not as bad as slut and that it does not fall under those categories.

And to add my own story.

I grew up in a household where the female, my mother, was physically and sexually abusive towards my father. She strangled him, pushed him down stairs, threw razor blades at him, hurled abuse such as 'pervert'/'paedophile'/'small dick' etc at him. My father done nothing in return because he knew how the law viewed it. I called the police at less than 10 years old one night because of her. Who did the police remove from the house and threaten with jail? My psychotic, deranged mother who had smashed the house up and threatened him or my dad because he was male?

I saw a group of popular girls in school repeatedly feel up a shy boy in class because it made him uncomfortable while making lewd sexual remarks at him. Did he tell? Did he buggery because he knew it wouldn't be viewed in the same light.

Or the few males who come forward and accuse women or rape and the women get nothing but a smack on the wrist.

So please, do not give me this 'women have awful treatment at the hands of men' pish when men suffer at the hands of women and they are the ones made to feel bad about it.

Women cannot rape men. Legally in this country only a penis can rape.

Yes some men do suffer at the hands of women. But on the whole many, many more women suffer at the hands of men.

Seriously homily ? You won't teach your son to expect to be respected ? You are going to cause serious damage to his self esteem.

She swore, so yes she should get a detention, just as the boy who sexually harrassed her.

I have a son, four brothers, seven nephews and been married twice (men). Two of those I would class as misogynists.

If every pupil who swore got a detention...

You won't teach your son to expect to be respected ? You are going to cause serious damage to his self esteem.

I did not say that. I said teaching him to respect women would be my first priority.

You'll find that men who respect women generally get respect back.

Sadly the same cannot be said the other way round.

YANBU. The things we expect our children to put up with in schools that we would never tolerate ourselves at work astounds me. Her response was completely understandable. I am really glad you're on her side OP, and that you've raised your daughter to be outraged at behaviour like this, and to stand up for herself.

I would class all the men in my life (bar my little boy, who is too young) as misogynists to varying degrees.

My Dad is your classic misogynist

Teenage brother is not quite so bad but has been hugely corrupted by all the misogynist permissiveness of society, e.g. thinking porn is fine. He's only young so I hope he grows out of it but who knows.

DP is great but he still slips up sometimes.

It's very difficult. It's insidious, as I said earlier.

Well a teacher would have to catch them swearing Elendon, I imagine the number actually caught is pretty low. Certainly every kid who swore and got caught at my school got detention, and lines

CopperRose The more I think about it, and this is my last post for a while, the more I find it unreal.

Let's get all primary school children to do the gesture that was described. All round tables, teacher doing it to. And then describe it as just banter.

See the discrepancy?

I think they'd all be giggling tbh Elendon - like you (rightly) said, they don't understand the meaning of it at that age.

Which is why it was a daft comparison for me to make.

Homity I agree with the 'varying degrees' bit, but I'm glad of small mercies. Two are classic misogynists though. Hateful, and full of hate.

homity of course the only part of my post you picked up on was the incorrect terminology. That invalidates everything else.

As for teaching your son to respect women, teach him to respect everyone without a thought for their genitals.

It's not me affording importance to genitalia here.

sailorcherries Fri 28-Apr-17 03:04:39
And also the comments about him making an unsolicited sexual gesture resulting in so many boys becoming rapists and abusers, that's disgusting. One does not go hand in hand with the other.

What is disgusting is that he did what he did.

Where do you think behaviour that leads to rape and the condoning of rape begins?

I think the boy should be punished and the old daughter told off, no detention.

We live in a society which punished victims for not fighting back. As a previous posters said, if you get raped then saying no, stop it, is not deemed enough. Yet here we are punishing females for doing this what we expect them to do.
People like this big only understand crude, brash offensive language. Anything else and I guarantee he would have carried on.
I would encourage my girls to do the exact same thing as the old DD.
I would then speak to school and in no uncertain terms demand to know what they are doing about the sexual harrasment which took place.
Failing to get a suitable response, i would ask to speak to the chair of governors and inform them that you might possibly be referring g the matter to the police. Hopefully this should get them to re-examine their procedures.
Let's be clear if this boy had made a racial slur and the op and responded with the word fuck, I very much doubt that the victim would be the one re diving a detention.

Where do you think behaviour that leads to rape and the condoning of rape begins?

I think there is a general belief that rapists are either shadowy strangers in dark alleyways, or products of hugely disturbed and dysfunctional upbringings.

They aren't. They are someone's husband, father, son, brother. And many are really very "normal".

All misogyny, no matter how "minor", is a contributing factor.

Sorry Sailorcherries, your anecdotes whilst awful, don't change the fact they the majority of sexual aggression is aimed at women, and that men maintain the upper hand throughout society which affects how that aggression is judged

I wish more girls responded like this. We are way past the point of manners being an issue- they need to be assertive and denying that is to ignore the routine degrading shit they put up with. The gesture was designed to humiliate and embarras the op's daughter- she has responded nonchalantly while pointing out his dickhead status.

Anna and hobit my apologies, I didn't express myself well - when I referenced my brothers and male teenage friends (not to mention my own nearly-teen sons) it was not because I consider myself an 'expert on sexual assault' because of this experience.

It's because I do consider myself a bit of an expert on teenage boys - the vast majority of whom act immaturely and in a way which would make them cringe later in their lives.

If I consider myself an 'expert on sexual assault' at all, it would be because I was sexually assaulted over several months at age eleven. This isn't sexual assault and saying that it is is actually pretty offensive.

I have also been severely sexually assaulted (raped), and I do count this as sexual assault.

It's all part of the same spectrum, as t'were.