To be fuming with DDs secondary school over 'fuck boy'.

[Shitonmyshoe]

Just that! For those who don't know, girls now call sexually aggressive/promiscuous boys 'fuck boy'. My daughter has no interest in lads and is only bothered about her GCSEs (very studious but outgoing kid). Today a lad in her year placed his index and middle finger to his face and wriggled his tongue between them (classy) towards my daughter. She told him, 'get out of my face fuck boy' which has resulted in her being punished via a detention. For background she is less than 5 foot in yr 10 and he is well over 6 foot and obviously trains (shithouse wall). Apparently, reason DD was punished was because she was being aggressive 😂

and explained to him why his behaviour is unacceptable.

I agree with your post Lass but not on this. He should have been made to explain why his behaviour was not acceptable.

Sexual harrassment is sexual harrassment regardless of who does it and what genitals they possess. It doesn't make it okay because one group is attacked (verbally, physically, emotionally) less so than the other.

Yes slut and fuck boy are the same, regardless of how you perceive it. They mean the exact same thing. You might think being called a slut is a slur, I'd shrug it off and get on with my day. This boy may not find fuck boy offensive but another might.

While you've managed to distract some posters with this little derail about whether fuck boy and slut are equivalent, you have yet to demonstrate in any way that calling someone either of these constitutes sexual harassment.

You seem to have taken the 'obscene remarks' thing and decided it means using any swear word that can be used to mean something to do with sex. That's quite clearly not what it means.

Please do come back and explain how the OP's daughter calling someone a fuck boy was sexually aggressive or sexual harassment.

When I was 19 I was groped walking down the street at 9 am. 2 guys walked past me and one stuck his hand our and grabbed my boob. I turned round and followed them shouting at the top of my voice things like:

Don't grope me you effing pervs.

Do not grab my tits.

Why do you think you have the right to grope me?
Look everyone - these guys assault women for fun.

The street was crowded. Everybody was watching them. They skulked off as fast as they could.

You don't think having someone having to research why such a gesture is not acceptable (outside of accepted behaviour in context to the relationship) and having to produce an essay, in addition to detention and a massive talking to, wouldn't help to make next person understand why what they did is misogynistic?

bugger the word you are looking for is defense

I did say that Elendons wording works as well in the context of what i was trying to say. No argument from me on that.

I think this is so symptomatic of how schools handle these things. If you're still around op my DD went through something very similar, several boys had been making sexually aggressive comments and gestures for months and one day in her English lesson she flipped - i cant bring myself to write down what they said and gestured to her but it was utterly vile. She told them to fuck off and was immediately given a detention. We raised a complaint with the school. Agree about language rules but they need to look at what happened. There was some half arsed investigation but no apology. Told us the boys had been 'spoken to'. DD is a quiet studious girl and there was never a question it happened but i was not happy with the outcome.

We told her she was brave to stand up to them and that in the workplace this would not be tolerated. Imagine a female worker being reprimanded with a sanction for saying fuck but a male worker having a few words said which does nothing to change his behaviour.

It makes me very very angry. Watching 13 reasons why at the moment with DD and she says a lot of it resonates - the victim blaming school culture. When she got that detention a teacher stood her in front of a class of y7s and said she was no role model for being a prefect. She had never before done anything that broke prefect rules.

She's only got a couple more months then she's out of there.

Posting this is hard but i do feel that schools are not doing enough about this insidious culture and girls are suffering because of it.

Hope your DD is ok.

Please do come back and explain how the OP's daughter calling someone a fuck boy was sexually aggressive or sexual harassment

In the OPs opening post she stated that the use of the word 'fuck boy' inferred a sexually promiscuous male.
The word 'slut' infers a sexually promiscuous female.

Please tell me how they differ without resorting to "but he was aggressive and she wasn't", which we do not know. Or "but it doesn't annoy/harm/upset males to the same degree". Or "its to do with misogyny/power" or some other variation.

You cannot sexually harrass someone verbally in response to someone making a sexually harassing gesture and believe you are in the right.

Once again, sexual harrassment and obscene sexual remarks shouldn't be acceptable regardless of the gender of the person making them or receiving them.

Much like the posters saying a female making a wanking sign at a male is not in the same category as a male making the gesture describe in the OPs post. They are both the bloody same.

Christ if someone made that gesture at me I wouldn't even give them the time of day. I wouldn't turn around and call them a slut. I certainly wouldn't think the person doing it was being aggressive in any way.

My son will be taught to never act or speak in such a vulgar way but he will also be taught to never allow a female to treat him in such a way. Not because he is a man and should know better for fear he starts raping everyone and their dog, but because a decent human being doesn't resort to that behaviour as a provocation or defense.
Much like I'd teach a daughter to not accept men treating her that way but also that she shouls never respond in kind because it is the same.

Not once has anyone excused the boys behaviour but stated that OPs daughter was no better, although some people clearly are refusing to read properly as it doesn't fit the argument.

Who hasn't seen something shocking and said 'Fuck' as their immediate defensive response? Anyone?

Sure, you might apologise, but others around you will understand your response.

You go into a classroom to learn. Not to be subjected to sexually aggressive behaviour.

No one has said you were 'lacking in brain power' CopperRose Nor did they say any of the other quotes.

Sigh.

Yes they did.

"Advocate [sexual aggression] by default"
HomityBabbityPie @ 12:53

"misogynistic"
HomityBabbityPie @ 12:54 & 12:59

"[the sort of person who] dismisses casual racism"
HomityBabbityPie @ 12:58 & 13:00

"Lacking in brain power"
Elendon @ 13:00

Mad that's absolutely outrageous your poor dd! I have to say our teachers back in the day were very quick to stamp on any behaviour like that. If we retaliated/defensively responded and broke the school rules we were punished aswell but in a tongue in cheek way, we'd get detention but with the nice teacher and we'd just chat while the boys were with the HT mwahahaha

mad I agree, it's usually easier for the schools to deal with the defensive pupils. It's too hard to take on the offensive ones

I have removed 6 yo dd2 from school because the school weren't protecting her from a group of boys...thumping, pushing over, jumping on, hair pulling, strangling, threatening, name calling, touching her vagina. Dd was on medication for a month and is under the care of a paediatrician as a result. Fucking PRIMARY school!!!

I encouraged her to thump them in the nose (she is twice the size) but she wouldn't, because school rules

It doesn't take much brain power to deduce that.

Was my actual quote CopperRose

And you still haven't answered my question.

What is actual sexual aggression?

So they both went against school rules? They should both be punished or neither, as frankly it's a 'telling off' offence at best. As someone with three older brothers and a lot of male friends in high school, this is hardly 'sexual assault'. He made a rude gesture (on par with calling someone a tosser, with associated hand gesture). I'm sure I did that as a teen - classy it was not, but sexual assault? Potential rapist? Really? Does nobody remember being a teenager - bad judgement and poor taste was common and no real harm was ever meant. Singling out your daughter for punishment is unfair, however.

although some people clearly are refusing to read properly as it doesn't fit the argument

Hmm, quite, sailorcherries. Care to try to actually answer my post, or indeed, specifically the part of it you started your post by quoting? Rather than extending the derail it pointed out. Thanks in advance.

Tbf Anna she may have also realised that thumping one of them when in a group might not be a good idea if they are like that, unlikely a smack would stop them. 6 yo? Jesus Christ

Mad I agree too. The school system seems to go down hard on those who defend themselves rather than getting to the root causes of it.

Respond back to them proportionately is what I told my children but they all desisted from this in case they got into trouble because they witnessed it.

My son will be taught to never act or speak in such a vulgar way but he will also be taught to never allow a female to treat him in such a way.

As a mother to a son my first priority will be teaching him to respect women over and above him demanding they give him equal respect.

You know why - because he's male and the world automatically affords him greater respect and privilege.

If he made this comment to a girl and she responded how this one did, I would assume (and would support) that he be suspended and I would be entirely on her side. Entirely. That would be my job, as a parent and a woman.

You cannot treat men and women as equal because the playing field is not level. It's like when you talk about domestic abuse and you get the inevitable "MEN EXPERIENCE IT TOO". Yes they do but on a much much MUCH smaller scale. Therefore women take priority. It's that simple.

barman how does having brothers and male friends make you an authority on what is and isn't sexual assault?

*And you still haven't answered my question.

What is actual sexual aggression?*

When there is aggressive intent.

Actual sexual aggression is not a gesture like this.
A gesture that kids (boys and girls) used to do at primary school when I was young.
A stupid, pathetic, teenage boy gesture.

I will repeat again my post:

I'd have told the pair of them off tbh, with a detention for him but not her.

I would have told them both off for their behaviour (boy for gesture, girl for language).

I would not have punished girl at all.

I would have punished boy with a relevant level of punishment (presuming no previous behaviour such as this, a detention is sufficient).

As someone with three older brothers and a lot of male friends in high school, this is hardly 'sexual assault'

What a bizarre statement

buggerit I think some pain and blood would be effective tbh

Having brothers and lots of male friends, or working in an all male environment might desensitise you to sexual aggression. It doesn't stop it.

If I found out my son had done that to a fellow class mate I would be ashamed, angry, but most of all, so disappointed in him. I would get him to explain why he felt he could do that in a place of learning and why he felt it was an appropriate thing to do.

I'd like to think that but it would probably have just ended up with your DD being jumped on by the others or targeted even more. Unfortunately again