To not understand all of this Corbyn hate

[clevername]

Disclaimer – I consider myself to be an intelligent and thoughtful person but also very uninformed and ignorant of political (and other) current affairs. Largely through my own choosing – I have virtually no faith in politicians and politics at all. I realised a very long time ago that the whole thing was an elaborate farce. I’ve always spoilt my ballot until Nick Clegg won me over and then proved, unequivocally, that I was right to not trust them. I vowed never to vote again but I’m feeling stirred to this time around and have therefore been looking into it more and trying to sift through the inevitable bullshit…

So – what is so bad about Corbyn? From what I understand (do remember my disclaimer and how uninformed I am!), the main people in the Labour party hate him because he is ‘unelectable’. So they’ve wanted him out for a long time but he has refused to go, on account of the fact he has been democratically chosen by the party members to be the leader. This annoys and frustrates them and they therefore blame him for creating an enormous and damaging rift in the party. But, surely, the fact that he has been elected as leader is testament to his popularity with Labour voters? And isn’t it a good thing that he stands his ground? Especially against the kind of people who would rather have someone like Ed Milliband (or his ilk – I don’t know any ‘current’ names) as party leader? Doesn’t it show that he is principled and ‘different’ from the political norm? Isn’t this something that we need?

And what does it matter if the Labour party are in shambles (a common reason I hear for not wanting to vote for them this time)? Surely that’s because of all of the ‘unelectable’ stuff above. But if he were to be elected, I’m guessing those problems would evaporate. Because he would have been elected. And anyway, aren’t political parties often shambolic? Wasn’t May’s drastic cabinet overhaul and sackings at the beginning of her reign (not to mention the Boris/Gove thing in the leadership contest) a clear sign of an ununited, shambolic party?

I realise Corbyn isn’t to everyone’s tastes politically but if you’re left leaning and want to try and get rid of the Tories, surely he’s not such a bad bet?

I’m sorry if this is making me come across as stupid but I genuinely want to know why some people (especially those who would normally consider themselves left-wing or Labour voters) dislike him so much.

Jesus.

You know I'm on your side, right? Thinking Corbyn and Momentum are disastrous and guaranteeing there will never be another Labour government is not the same as thinking disabled people should die in a gutter. It just isn't.

If I didn't give a shit I'd be saying crack on Jeremy, doesn't affect me.

This hostility is, again, counter productive and unwarranted.

teawamtu I honestly think youre misunderstanding me, im honestly not being hostile I promise sorry if im coming across like that

And I'm sorry for dismissing a blog that you like. The Brexit result was a huge wake up call for me and got me looking closely at the tone of political debate, especially on the left. Especially mine, tbh.

I think we've all been so convinced of what's right that we've been rather too quick to label people wrong, thick, selfish etc. And sent them the other way.

I don't think that blog is totally wrong - but the tone is strictly for the already converted iyswim? Which won't help and might make things worse.

Maybe address peoples concerns of corbyn and momentum then JustAnotherPoster00 as you have been quite a prolific poster on all the political threads, you have made multiple appeals to emotion and just assume any criticism is from the right wing, even so far as accuse many self proclaimed lifelong labour supporters as have being influenced by the daily mail etc.

Sometimes you have to actually argue the points and not descend into partisan fanaticism

I think the frustration is building and certainly for those of us that have disabilities or have a greater need on the NHS, I cant seem to understand how people can compartmentalise what the tories are doing to the vulnerable, scary scary stuff

The concerns that a lot of people have voiced over Corbyn seem to be the recycled tropes that are always bandied about, so as tired as you are of seeing Corbyn I'm tired of seeing the tropes being thrown about with no active reasoning behind them.

The momentum aspect of stuff this is all assumption because I'm not a member of momentum I think Corbyn and Momentum have been conflated as a single entity too often, in comparison to the amount of people that joined to support Corbyn, the momentum membership hasnt increased in line with. No one seems to say much about progress (the blairite version of momentum) and they influence policy more than momentum have had a chance too or would get a chance too

Just - I'm disabled too and I'm also scared. But I don't think the tone of that blog will convince anyone other than those who don't need convincing.

People don't like to be thought of as being bad people, and I don't think most people are, but that blog is so long, and so lecturing, that I got put off half way through. Then again, I have cognitive deficits so maybe not the best example!

I think meeting people where they are, and disagreeing with facts in a gentle manner, as they arise tends to get people on side more.

Most people don't want bad stuff for disabled people, it just doesn't occur to people if it isn't part of their lives. And Jeremy Corbyn does seem like he would rather compromise on nothing, than win for us. Not a good thing if he had to deal with Parliament and other countries.

I'm disabled too in fact I'm terminally ill.

I'm tired of seeing the tropes being thrown about with no active reasoning behind them.

Lots of posters including me have given you plenty of active reasoning. You just don't like the answers.

Piglet - so sorry about your health.

I hope that whatever happens at the election, this country can gain a sense of unity over separation. Ranting and hectoring won't achieve this, no matter how well intentioned.

I find that blog unreadable, Just. And I read plenty of political articles and blogs.

I agree with Piglet - there have been plenty of facts and reasoning on this thread. Do please counter some of it. Which allegations in particular do you have in mind? Can you provide factual links to disprove them? Or explain how JC can win a GE (this is about the 20th time I have asked this on MN and no-one has ever answered so I won't hold my breath!).

for Piglet.

Piglet Im sorry to hear that

Do please counter some of it.

Quid pro quo? Because it doesn't seem like the Blairites ever can explain war and financial collapse, or that the original author of this austerity is Alistair Darling.

But really I fail to see the use of it going into an election. It will only strength the Tories.

Stand with your party.

Whataboutery, make.

Defending decisions I didn't take ten years ago? What would that tell us about the decision we need to take on June 2?

Corbyn and his most ardent supporters have made it very clear that me and my fellow more centrist viewers aren't wanted. So it isn't my party, is it? You can't have it both ways.

Austerity is not ten years ago. It is now. It is the position of centrist Labour. It is morally faulted and it doesn't work.

Piglet so sorry to read about your health .

I completely understand why people are fearful of what an empowered Conservative Party will do. Me too.

Regarding the Iraq War. It's not the in the sand so many on the far left seem to think it is - and I speak as someone who strongly disagreed with the decision, protested against it and resigned membership of the party.

The Labour Party won the the election which took place after the war., with a reduced but still comfortable majority.

And, before, we forget - Tony Blair didn't take us into Iraq on his own, the motion went to Parliament and he had cross party support.

Whataboutery it not countering the many specific allegations made about JC, Make, or explaining how he can win an election.

If the only answer JC supporters have is "Iraq!" "The tories are worse!", we are doomed.

Dianne Abbot on LBC this morning was dreadful !!

Thank you for the kind words everyone

Dianne Abbot on LBC this morning was dreadful !!

It was worse than dreadful. Her tv ones have been just as bad.

Piglet I'm very sorry to hear it too. I shall check out Diane Abbott's appearance - think there's another thread on it!

It was worse than dreadful. Her tv ones have been just as bad.

Yeah, if I was a conspiracy nut I would say that Labour HQ wheels her out to make sure they keep low in the poll ratings ..

I think its telling that when it was pointed out that this latest policy was going to be funded from the same source as all the other policies, her reply was "We've not promised the money to any area" !!!

Utterly shambolic

If the only answer JC supporters have is "Iraq!" "The tories are worse!", we are doomed.

Well perhaps it is that we are worried that if you guys get in control again, you will drag us into war, destabilise another part of the world and drive us into financial meltdown. Thereby handing the tories a stick to beat us with for another decade.

And then draft a non-working, punitive austerity plan for them.

i think this is labour's soundbite moment for when it became abundantly clear they were heading for a terrible defeat, sadly. This is the Gordon Brown/bigoted woman moment right here. Except this is worse - Abbott didn't have a single clue what she was on about.

And btw, isn't it clear the cost of the extra police spirals year on year, from what she was saying? So by year 5, it's £298m.

Jeepers, Make. I opposed the war in Iraq, marched against it, didn't rejoin Labour until Brown and Blair both left govt. OK? I agree with pp that Iraq is not as clear cut as some make out but many, many people in labour opposed the war, oppose the benefit cuts, and think JC is a useless leader, handing the country to a right wing and incompetent government. I don't know how many more times I can bear to say this.

Try playing the ball not the woman, please. I would honestly like to know your views on the specific issues raised and on the GE - how many seats will labour win do you thinK?