To not understand all of this Corbyn hate

[clevername]

Disclaimer – I consider myself to be an intelligent and thoughtful person but also very uninformed and ignorant of political (and other) current affairs. Largely through my own choosing – I have virtually no faith in politicians and politics at all. I realised a very long time ago that the whole thing was an elaborate farce. I’ve always spoilt my ballot until Nick Clegg won me over and then proved, unequivocally, that I was right to not trust them. I vowed never to vote again but I’m feeling stirred to this time around and have therefore been looking into it more and trying to sift through the inevitable bullshit…

So – what is so bad about Corbyn? From what I understand (do remember my disclaimer and how uninformed I am!), the main people in the Labour party hate him because he is ‘unelectable’. So they’ve wanted him out for a long time but he has refused to go, on account of the fact he has been democratically chosen by the party members to be the leader. This annoys and frustrates them and they therefore blame him for creating an enormous and damaging rift in the party. But, surely, the fact that he has been elected as leader is testament to his popularity with Labour voters? And isn’t it a good thing that he stands his ground? Especially against the kind of people who would rather have someone like Ed Milliband (or his ilk – I don’t know any ‘current’ names) as party leader? Doesn’t it show that he is principled and ‘different’ from the political norm? Isn’t this something that we need?

And what does it matter if the Labour party are in shambles (a common reason I hear for not wanting to vote for them this time)? Surely that’s because of all of the ‘unelectable’ stuff above. But if he were to be elected, I’m guessing those problems would evaporate. Because he would have been elected. And anyway, aren’t political parties often shambolic? Wasn’t May’s drastic cabinet overhaul and sackings at the beginning of her reign (not to mention the Boris/Gove thing in the leadership contest) a clear sign of an ununited, shambolic party?

I realise Corbyn isn’t to everyone’s tastes politically but if you’re left leaning and want to try and get rid of the Tories, surely he’s not such a bad bet?

I’m sorry if this is making me come across as stupid but I genuinely want to know why some people (especially those who would normally consider themselves left-wing or Labour voters) dislike him so much.

Yeah youre right piglet, fuck those unions, who needs collective bargaining power for workers rights, I mean bosses always put their workers first especially before profits

Except that's not what I said is it? And no I don't always think unions always put workers first either. They aren't are some sort of paragon of virtue. The absolute state of the Unite elections shows that!

Piglet - I do agree that the anti-semitism is awful - I can't believe that Lady Chakrabarti got into the Lords following a report on it for Labour. If Corbyn had handed her a cheque on delivery of the report, it wouldn't have been more blatant.

I think all the anti-semites should be instantly expelled from the Labour Party. I don't have as much of an issue with people criticising the actions of Israel's government if they disagree with their political actions. Because that isn't necessarily anti-Semitic if the criticism would be valid irrespective of religion is it? Or have I got that wrong?

What I don't understand is historically Labour supporters voting for the Tories instead of Labour, rather than spoiling their paper or voting for the Lib Dems, Green etc. It seems such a massive leap.

NoLottery - thank you, it makes me feel sick whenever I think about the warehousing. I hope people really would rally round us, and it's nice to know that people do care

I also think there is something inherently untrustworthy and almost nasty about John McDonell, but I have no idea what!

DH's boss has said he would fire anyone who tried to start a union in the office.

Which is fine as his employer is very good and very trustworthy. PlusDH doesn't like unions.

Well I'll vote tactically against the SNP as independence is the biggest threat to the poor up here, I am going to wait for the locals to get an idea of who that is.

What happened to Coyne at Unite utterly appalled me. Grommit is there a group you trust to fight for people in receipt of DLA? I've got 2 family members on this but they aren't political.

Assuming the tories get the 75-150 seat majority, other groups are going to be important in trying to hold the tories to account.

good idea NoLottery i will look into it.

there are a lot of problems i have with corbyn but just off the top of my head

attempting to form party policy around his views, most of which were formed in the 80s or before. its 2017. the politics of a few years ago are out of date.

trying to communicate policy trump style via social media and soundbites and not using the relevant elected representatives or by publishing traditional policy documents in any number

wanting to nationalise the railways and energy companies

not even the vaguest clue as to how what few policies he has will be paid for

starting a civil war with the rest of the PLP over the nuclear issue. it's a non issue nationally, it sabotaged labour as a whole and he lost anyway. labour didn't change their policy

not having enough allies among your own colleagues to form a full shadow cabinet

the publication of lists and his inability to control his supporters. MPs receiving thousands of malicious emails for being perceived to be hostile, protests and heckling outside of MPs surgeries etc.

complaining to journalists about MPs briefing against him, then briefing against them

sabotaging the remain campaign was arguably his worst achievement

making diane abbott Shadow Secretary of State for International Development was bad enough, but then Shadow Health Secretary & Shadow Home Secretary.

john "f**king useless" McDonell (and his red book)

automatic deselection of MPs

non deselection of labour party member ken livingstone

providing no opposition to the tories and effectively making David Davies the unofficial opposition in this country

Shami Chakrabarti and the peerage that she "earned"

opposing the peace process in Northern Ireland

a suspiciously high number of female MPs receiving malicious communications

prepared statements at shadow cabinet meetings

having said all that we vote for the party in this country and corbyn will hopefully be gone in about six weeks so i'm still considering voting for Labour. they are still the party that best represents my views even if corbyn and his very small faction is still represented on the NEC (for now). i just hope he doesn't try to hang on and drag labour down any further than he already has after the defeat is confirmed. i'm also worried if the Tories only win by about 30 or so seats he will claim that as some sort of twisted victory

Todays little nugget. McDonnell is pictured speaking in front of a communist flag....

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/

Would anyone like to play? Please read all the rules (theyre at the end of the article)

What lets Labour down is the fact that they ignore social housing tenants.

They have a promise in their manifesto that promises more rights for private tenants and a clampdown on rogue private landlords.
But some of the social landlords have been behaving in the same manner. In fact John Harris has been doing a series on this for the Guardian recently.

Labour have ignored the fact that social housing tenants are suffering the same problems and they are determined to keep on ignoring it.

WHY?

John Harris"s recent articles are in this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2901354-Housing-associations-Are-you-having-problems

A communist flag

That's going to go down well with voters that are undecided

Just, nice try .

Almost no-one on here is supporting the tories or defending their record though. That's why we want a decent opposition and a chance of Labour in government. Think that is the fifth time I have said that, and others have too. I genuinely do not see why that is so hard to understand.

No I don't want to play

I know where my political beliefs lie

And I know Corbyn is the one damaging the party not the Labour supporters (many who are members) he is the reason Labour are unelectable and have proved to be the weakest opposition I have known

So he will not get my support he will just count all votes for him as votes for a far left revolution I don't want to be part of that becuase the longer he stays the longer the Tories will stay in power

That's going to go down well with voters that are undecided

He also chopped it off the picture he tweeted. Unfortunately for him, others where there and have tweeted the full unedited picture.

That's quality PR - photo taken by communist flag, and you photoshop it before posting it. Triumph! After the unite thing I suspected he was an old school Stalinist, at least there is truth in advertising.

This is an interesting article about McDonnell

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/03/exclusive-john-mcdonnell-named-lenin-and-trotsky-his-biggest-influences-2006

Just, is that your blog? That's about the fourth time you've linked to it, isn't it?

I've linked to it more than 4 times on various threads, no it isnt my blog, he says what Im thinking but much better than I could come up with in a month of Sundays

OK, since it isn't yours then I'll say that the hectoring, self righteous tone is, IMO, one of the reasons Labour is doing so bloody badly.

Treating everyone who doesn't agree with absolutely every point of your dogma as an evil scumbag is completely counter productive. If you want to convince people you have to at least look like you're listening and don't despise them.

Assuming, of course, that you (general you) want to win, of course. If you just want to be ideologically pure, it works just fine.

Well Piglet they are doing politics differently

So differently they haven't got a clue what they are doing it seems

We should after the election seriously have a thread about what people can do to protest cuts to disability benefits or other benefits as anything comes up. I can completely understand how scared I'd feel faced with a Tory government I believe had no respect for me.

Agree. I'll join.

Pointing out facts is now hectoring and self righteous, who knew?