To think teachers should not puts hands on children

[Mousedl1]

So I went on a school trip today with my DS class as they needed volunteers. Lunch was outside sat on a field DS was asked to sit down twice by the class room helper, for back round other children were up and playing he was being his usual slow self. He classroom helper then grabbed him by the shoulders and literally forced him to sit down, he didn't say anything and just sat bewildered and looked at me as he has never been shoved to do something at home.
I was very angry but as a school trip said nothing, another mum saw I was annoyed and commented that helper can often be 'forceful' with children. I am now home and furious and I think even more so that my son accepted it which with the other comment makes me think this may not be the first time. He isn't a nasty child but can get silly and giggly (is 6) but I don't think this is appropriate from an adult, then 10 mins later another child punched someone in the face and she had to hold a hand for 5 mins 😤 So she was punished less for that in my opinion then him standing to eat his food. Is it unreasonable to go into school and tell them in no uncertain terms no body has the right to do this or is it best to leave it like my husband says as it will cause problems for my son long term (the helper moves up with the class each year so he has her for 1 more)

"the violent child says is "you touched me - I'm telling on you!"
Oh the old, 'you're not allowed to touch me!'
Absolutely we are and sometimes must to protect the child and others.

So you didn't intervene at the time, either with your kid who was not doing as he had been told, or by the TA "pushing" him down because at the time it was "minor" and now it's not.
Make your mind up.
Had I seen my 6 yr old manhandled to the ground by TA (or anyone else) I'd have gone cosmic. But that's not what happened, is it?

Yes I do have safeguarding training, professional training on flight risks and as part of my job have a full DRB check

I've also had a parent come to complain to my senior management as I had 'grabbed their child by the jumper and spun them around, shouting at them'.

Their child has been staring in to space on the way out the door, facing the wrong way. I said their name a few times to get their attention but nothing. I then put my hands on their shoulder and turned them around saying something along the line of "come on now it's home time".

I had to have an interview/talk with senior management and then I had to go through it again with the parents. It was mortifying and really upsetting. Please do not assume/accuse the TA of "using force" if you aren't sure, as it can cause quite an ordeal.

This incident seems that touch was not needed. However as an EX teacher in a PRU with ten years experience- I totally disagree.

I'm sure he can follow rules and do what he's asked but like any 6 year old he's going to push boundaries.

On this ocassion, by your own words, he'd been asked, personally, several times and there where other children who needed looking after too.

Just how much individual attention should your DS get before he feels like complying with instruction? For me this reads as a two fold issue.

1. Your DS in this instance, in view of you and staff willfully, repeatedly didn't do as requested.

2. You feel force was used on your DS and didn't raise this as an issue at the time or in the time you were with the group afterwards so now need to process it and decide if its an issue to pursue or let go.

I didnt go cosmic as I was actually shocked at what I had seen and then spoke to another parent who had seen it, and going cosmic at an adult in front of children isn't helpful

Another parent did see the incident and was closer than me and she was shocked and felt he was forced down rather than guided to listen which is a huge difference

Well I personally have found with my own dcs, at that age, that actually doing what the Helper did was the best way to get things done. No shouting, so messing around until they did finally do whatever I asked.
Taking them by the hand, putting hands on shoulder and pushing gently down works quite well ime.

I think that you have misintrepreated the strength by which she pushed him down. He wasn't hurt, he didn't loose his balance or anything like this. He night well have got the clear message of stopping to fool around so sat down on his own accord when he felt the pressure.
If he pressure had been that strong to make him sit down, I would have expected him to wobble, loose his balance etc... iyswim.

I'm surprised that you are not that bothered by the fact he didn't listen and refused to sit down, despite being told TWICE to do so though. As he wasn't doing as he was told, what dois you expect to see happening to ensure that your ds would finally sit down with everyone else??

I'm also noticing the 'being his usual slow self' comment which tells me that
1- this is a regular occurrence at home
2- you are actually excusing him and making it normal at home not to do what he is told to do.
There is no reason at all why he would be slow at sitting down TBH. This is not a behaviour that should be excused or found normal.

Oh ffs! Precious pumpkins and hysterical parents need to get a grip. He was disobedient and the adult ( as I understand it) placed her hands on his shoulders and applied pressure to reinforce the request to sit down! Get over yourself. And we wonder why there is a chronic shortage of teachers and TAs ..

Does your DS usually have to be asked to do something more than twice before he does it?
Is this the same at home and at school?

Would you rather he was allowed to ignore the request and then run around eating and choke?

Tell your kid to do what he's told! Next time he's not listewing he might walk into a road!

How did you expect the helper to 'guide your ds to listen to what he was told to do'???

No he is rarely asked to anything more Han once and as I have commented I was bothered he had not listened and I spoke to him about it and he received a sanction for that when he got home and it was explained again why he was having it and that it's not ok to not listen

Sounds like you need to improve your parenting.

Being his 'usual slow self'? My daughter would have sat down in an instant if another adult/teacher asked her too. He sounds like he has no respect for authority at all. And you watched all this?

I'd have been fuming and told him in no uncertain terms to sit down now. Rude little child!

Oh ffs! Precious pumpkins and hysterical parents need to get a grip. He was disobedient and the adult ( as I understand it) placed her hands on his shoulders and applied pressure to reinforce the request to sit down! Get over yourself. And we wonder why there is a chronic shortage of teachers and TAs

No wonder teachers hate school trips.

Moused if you are unhappy with what you saw then of course you should speak to his teacher about it. I have never used force on a child, I've certainly changed my tone to let them know I am being serious but no never force. I have taken children by the hand and guided them back to their seats though.

Are you sure she didn't just put her hand on his shoulder and not apply force? YABU.

I bet the TA is just as gobsmacked as you OP, she'll be saying to her family "and the bloody mother saw him not doing as he was told and said nothing"
What's safeguarding got to do with anything?
Apart from being a trendy buzzword that gets lobbed into any conversation on MN about bad teachers?

If you saw your child being silly and not as they were asked why didnt you call over "son sit down"? If she forced him then you should be speaking to school about it ?

Sigh, any thread about whether any adult responded appropriately to bad behaviour brings out a rash of condemnation of the child, their parent's discipline, the parent's supervision at the time of the incident. I think you're quite right not to intervene in the moment OP, you were there as a helper not as a parent and were doing your own job. I certainly wouldn't jump in if I witnessed my child in a discipline situation when I'm in school volunteering, that would feel really disrespectful of the teacher already dealing with them. Words would be had when they were back in my charge at the end of the day!

I think in your position I'd query it with the teacher in private later. For any child, not just mine, being pushed. It's not like they actually hit or hurt the child, so I wouldn't want to undermine them in front of the children or start a difficult conversation when everyone's busy on a trip. But equally, discipline by pushing kids around physically is not good practice and wouldn't be comfortable seeing it. There are circs where touching is fine, doesn't sound like this was one of them.

But you weren't there as part of your job, you were there as a mummy-helper. You should not have been left in charge of a child who needs 121.

If it was my son on a trip not doing as he's told, he'd have been taken on one side and given a bloody stern talking to, by me as his mother. And as a teacher too, I'd have given him the old line of "you do as you're told. First time of asking"

Repeating unheard instructions is fine but if the child is being silly, disruptive and uncooperative then yes, a different tactic needs to be applied.

Taking school trips out is hugely stressful, and incredibly hard work.

Try organising a trip for, and taking 180 kids out for a day. It's great when it goes well but exhausting in every way.

It's no wonder teachers don't want to do them.

Oh for goodness sake

When I was at school, our teachers used to do this all the time in assembly, if we took our time sitting down, they'd simply push down on our shoulders as they walked past behind us.

It doesn't take 'force', especially if the kid has already been told to sit down.

What is a 'full DRB check'?