To think teachers should not puts hands on children

[Mousedl1]

So I went on a school trip today with my DS class as they needed volunteers. Lunch was outside sat on a field DS was asked to sit down twice by the class room helper, for back round other children were up and playing he was being his usual slow self. He classroom helper then grabbed him by the shoulders and literally forced him to sit down, he didn't say anything and just sat bewildered and looked at me as he has never been shoved to do something at home.
I was very angry but as a school trip said nothing, another mum saw I was annoyed and commented that helper can often be 'forceful' with children. I am now home and furious and I think even more so that my son accepted it which with the other comment makes me think this may not be the first time. He isn't a nasty child but can get silly and giggly (is 6) but I don't think this is appropriate from an adult, then 10 mins later another child punched someone in the face and she had to hold a hand for 5 mins 😤 So she was punished less for that in my opinion then him standing to eat his food. Is it unreasonable to go into school and tell them in no uncertain terms no body has the right to do this or is it best to leave it like my husband says as it will cause problems for my son long term (the helper moves up with the class each year so he has her for 1 more)

So you heard the TA ask him to sit down twice. Why would you need to go over. You could have called over LittleMousedl1 "Do as you are told and sit down"! I agree she should not have used force. Are you sure she didn't just place her hands on his shoulder to guide him rather than push him down?

force him down what do you mean by this? Did she put her hands on his shoulders and ask him to sit down or did she use a lot of force?

Shoved or placed hands on shoulders and pushed down gently to reinforce the request to sit down, that he'd ignored twice already?

I have been on multiple school trips over the years, covering several age groups and without exception there are always one or two kids on every trip who will just not do they are asked and then told. It's frustrating. It's stressful enough trying to constantly head count the group you are responsible for with one child seemingly unable to listen and obey basic instructions.

Go into the school if you want. I'm not sure what you expect though. Your ds needs to learn to listen to instructions and then obey them. As someone else pointed out, they are asked to sit so that staff can watch the entire group. If kids are standing then you have a blocked view of other kids.

This is probably why teachers secretly hate parents volunteering for anything. And before I chewed up and spat out. I know its kind of people to do so.
However if that were me and I saw my dd. Having to be repeatedly told to do something I'd be bloody mortified, and I'd have gone over and sat her down myself.
He's not forced to do anything at home. Well sadly In the real world. You have to do as you are told. The teachers and TAs cannot pussy foot around your little poppet and allow him to get away with things, because you've got an aversion to him being disciplined. Its not how it works
, I'm afraid. He is after all 6. He's not 2.

I think school staff should be allowed a lot more freedoms without every move being questioned. Imagine 30 x 6 year olds all needing to be given every instruction personally several times over!

Its hard to gather full context from what you post but were you not tempted to correct your childs poor behaviour rather than wait for another adult to repeatedly try and then act in a way that made you uncomfortable?

In a large class environment the children need strong discipline or chaos would ensue. That being said I'm a fan of the look. The most effective disciplinarians i've seen don't need to shout or touch just glance in a pointed way and children know.

Having not raised it at the time you need to decide if you want to make it an issue because effectively you need to escalate it to raise it now.

She put her hands on his shoulders and moved him down to the floor so he was sat with enough force that he did it, he wasn't hurt or injured by it and I couldn't move as I was sat with a SN child who likes to run and his 1-2-1 career had gone to the toilet and I thought something as minor as sitting down wouldn't need my input

I'm a TA in a reception class. As sailor says , there are times you have to guide children and put your hands on them but I'd never force a child to sit down in the way you describe, I'd not push or pull a child either in an aggressive way either.

It's not minor though if he won't do it when he's asked to.

He does have to follow rules and do what he is told and he does but I don't put hands him to force him at home as that's not appropriate

I work as a TA. Our LA has a 'hands off' 'rule so we're all quite clear on that. I have also been in the scenario several times when a child is physically attacking another and I'm the first adult on the scene. Using my voice hasn't worked. Would you prefer that I don't touch?

I have touched in order to protect children and often the first thing the violent child says is "you touched me - I'm telling on you!" In some cases the other child is on the ground bruised and bleeding. What happens then is a fair amount of teacher hours spent unpicking the events and my part in them - in fact far more than can be spent on the cause of the issue in the first place. I have never been disciplined or spoken to about any incident as my actions were necessary to prevent further injury.

I wish parents would work from the principle that we're not out to hurt their children and any 'touching' we do is constructive in some way, be it as a preventative, a distraction, a way to get their attention or a means of comfort.

What does "literally forced" mean? How much force?

If he was refusing to sit under instruction what do you propose the next step would be to get the child to sit down? I'm also unsure of your punishment comparison? Sitting and eating lunch isn't a punishment.

If you was in hearing distance to hear him being asked to sit down twice
You was near enough to say something to him. Other children up and about playing is irrelevant, he was still eating and should be taught to stay seated to eat.
Plus it seems bizarre that another Parent would be named in a risk assessment for a flight risk child rather than the assistant or teacher.

While not minor is was in comparison to what I was doing at that point with a SN child so I couldn't drop and go to sort it that second. He was of course spoke to when I was free about listening and following orders when told and had a sanction at home for not doing so when asked

Schools can touch children and can use reasonable force. Of course, this must be reasonable and for the right reasons. It totally depends whether this was a push down or just gently placing hands on shoulders as another poster has said.

Was she a teacher, TA or another parent? Not sure what 'classroom helper' means.

Just for the record OP, I think you meant a child with SN, not a SN child. Or I hope you did anyway.
Nothing stopped you calling over for your DS to sit down, and he hadn't listened twice before. TA was a bit extreme but sounds like it was needed.

Something as minor as sitting down wouldn't need your input.

And there's the bloody problem.

I doubt he was roughly shoved to the ground.
If he was I apologise and that is of course completely unacceptable.
I suspect he was surprised someone made him do as he was told. And sat sharply.

It's was the SN child aunt who had attended the day with him as for him to attend one of the family have to attend she had just gone to the toilet

I would be more concerned that as a parent-helper you were left in charge of a child who was a 'flight risk'!!! I am a 1:1 TA and would never leave a parent-helper to keep an eye on my child, the TA should have done that and then you could have been in charge of telling your own child to behave!

Op? Are you DRB checked then?

LetUs My thoughts too.

I think your best option is to encourage your child to follow instruction the first time they're asked OP instead of messing around. He's 6, most 6 year olds can easily follow an instruction to sit down. You also say most of the others were already playing which suggests they had already managed to sit and finish their lunch. I'm wondering how many times your DS had been asked to sit and eat their their lunch before a TA resorted to perhaps showing him he had to sit down and hurry up?

So you e had relevant training on how to handle a flight risk child?

A 6 year old should be able to follow simple instructions after being asked twice. Personally if it was my dc one school trip I would have called out and told them to sit down. I would have spoke to dc when we got home about not listening to teachers.

If it bothered you that much you should have pulled teacher aside, either after lunch, on the coach, back at the school and explained that you didn't think it was necessary to put her hands on ds.
I don't think you should go into the school now to complain, I think you missed your chance.

I witnessed something similar on a school trip. Other people also saw it. I asked her (the TA) to stop it. She didn't.

I wrote a letter and asked for a meeting with the head to clarify policy. I said that I wanted the staff member to receive further training/guidance about what was acceptable physical contact.

I have no problem with a teacher holding hands, child sitting on the knee or a reassuring hug. I have a huge problem with the gripping of the top of an arm and dragging so that the child is tripping over his own feet. He wasn't misbehaving, just not moving fast enough.

I received a letter back from this person telling me that I was lying and that my son was lying (he told me after that she often grabbed him in this way). She said that she had training that told her to never hold on to a child, so she never would. The head called me to tell me that she had his full support and that was that. I said that I couldn't trust someone to look after my son who denied doing something that I saw with my own eyes.

I also witnessed her being rough and dismissive with a child (aged 5) who was crying and terrified by a witch in a pantomime.

I honestly wanted to hurt her

I sent a deregistration letter the next day. We now home ed.