To wonder wtf is going on in Wales?

[brexitstolemyfuture]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-labour-poll-wales-yogov-majority-seats-first-time-century-a7699776.html%3famp

Tories predicted to get a majority for the first time in a century. I thought this was fake news, but no it's real

A lot of people who I know who voted for brexit will be voting for tories as they are worried that other parties will stop or reverse the brexit process. They don't put any importance on tory policies re NHS, education, tax etc, only brexit. So yes we're doomed.

The EEC may only have been a common market when we joined but the intention for the initial trading arrangements to evolve into closer economic and political links have been set out by member states as far back as the Treaty of . It was never hidden and the UK government would have known this.

GraceGrape - your point is worth repeating ......"Austerity" was a deliberate economic and political choice. The argument that there was "no money left" doesn't add up when the government was able to afford tax cuts for the wealthiest. It has been a deliberate policy to target the poor and weak. And now Wales, the poorest region of the UK, wants to vote for more of this. It is really hard to fathom. The Tories have some very good people behind the scenes writing their soundbites.

joanopie the milk I buy is from local farms , delivered to my door . The rest of the milk I buy from the supermarket is British milk . There is a whole different argument about the price the farmers are paid for the milk though , but that has been an ongoing issue for many years now .

People saying they are voting Tory because they are afraid Labpur will reverse Brexit? Labour can't reverse it, and has said they would not reverse it.

My cheese is British too , made with British milk ( from Lidl ) . Strangely the spreadable butter stuff we like doesn't say , but it does contain palm oil , so now I feel guilty for buying the blinking stuff !

Labour can't reverse it

Of course they can!

People saying they are voting Tory because they are afraid Labpur will reverse Brexit? Labour can't reverse it, and has said they would not reverse it.

Are you able to clearly articulate what Labour's Brexit stance is?
Because their Brexit spokesman couldn't.
And then he was directly contradicted hours later by one of his shadow Brexit buddies.

Regardless, with Gina Millar trying her damnedest to subvert democracy by using other people's money to buy the result that she wants to see, the only party I trust to 'do brexit' is the Tory party.

Oops, just re-read my post upthread where I wrote Treaty of and forgot to write which treaty. Treaty of Rome.

The argument that there was "no money left" doesn't add up when the government was able to afford tax cuts for the wealthiest

That doesn't necessarily follow. A high tax rate on high earners can lead to a drop in tax receipts as they rearrange their circumstances to avoid the tax. Companies relocate elsewhere and high earners relocate elsewhere, it becomes hard to attract investment and high earning business.

The cut actually made no difference to tax receipts and given it may have made the UK more attractive to businesses paying tax via other means it probably led to a rise in tax receipts overall.

Labour can't reverse it

Anyone who is in power could reverse it should they decide it is the best option for the country . Almost certainly won't though .

Europe would not have the U.K. back! I'm sure Brexiteers can sleep easy on that.......wether it will be a restful sleep in the fullness of time - who knows.

Regardless, with Gina Millar trying her damnedest to subvert democracy by using other people's money to buy the result that she wants to see, the only party I trust to 'do brexit' is the Tory party.

Ironic stance given the investigation into TORY election spending.

Copper remind me again how Gina Miller is subverting democracy ?

So tactical voting is "subverting democracy" now, is it?

I do find that so t of thinking really, really scary.

"Europe would not have the U.K. back! "

They have made it very clear that they would.

Tapandgo True , be we haven't actually left yet

It seems to me that JC is a proper socialist and is trying to bring fairness into this country and peace into the world. (The only other speaker that made as much sense to me and I bothered to listen to was Tony Benn.) Why is this so wrong? Why are prominent Labour people who I assumed were socialists so negative? Neil Kinnock, Hilary Benn.... the list is endless.
At the moment there is support from a great deal of people of all ages and all walks of life that can see a light at the end of the tunnel. In the past I only voted Labour to keep the Tories out and I am sure that there are thousands like me. For members of the electorate (not Labour supporters) who dislike JC this seems to be is as a result of the negative media campaign against him. Most would not actually be able to tell you anything about the policies. Social Media is the only place where there seems to be any positivity. I believe he will be the next Prime Minister and this country will have a Labour Government that will change politics as we know it. I am sick of the greed, corruption and selfishness in our society. Those of us who own houses, have a good income, holidays, cars..... Must support a fair welfare system, a revitalised NHS, a living wage, an end to austerity..... It would only take a major illness or a loss of job to take away that easy life. Then what.....?

Copper remind me again how Gina Miller is subverting democracy ?

creating a list of MPs that she (and her bankrollers) think should be voted for.

Bankrolling individual MPs that she, Richard Branson et al want to be elected.

Circumventing the rules & regs about transparency & fairness in funding parties (by naming individual MPs)

Effectively giving her (and Richard Branson et al) access to more than one vote apiece - under the guise of 'this is a vote for democracy' when it is a massively undemocratic exercise.

If Gina Miller thinks that she has the answers as to how best to govern this country, then Gina Miller should start her own political party (a la Aaron Banks) rather than doing it in such a subversive manner.

Who gave Gina Miller the mandate to "choose MPs who will do the best for Britain"
Is that not the job of the political parties (or independents) to choose who is best to stand for election, and then the individual to choose who is the 'best' candidate?

What criteria is she using to select the 'best' MPs?
Is it purely their stance on Brexit?
Is it their party's stance on Brexit?
Does it even contemplate or consider any other ways in which the MP is 'best (or indeed not best) for Britain?

*So tactical voting is "subverting democracy" now, is it?

I do find that so t of thinking really, really scary.*

No Bertrand, tactical voting is not subverting democracy, it is an integral part of our democracy.

However, mass tactical voting movements which are bankrolled by business leaders & which seek to throw money behind their pick of individuals who they think should be elected is profoundly undemocratic.

It is a well proven fact that the amount of money a candidate has behind their campaign has a direct impact on their chances of winning or not.

Gina et al are weighing the dice in favour of their pick of who is "Best for Britain", based on very narrow criteria (Brexit).

I shouldn't worry, CopperRose. All voters, particularly Lteave voters, weight up all sides of the argument and consider all the available evidence before coming to an informed decision. So nobody's going to be influenced by personalities, slogans or advertising campaigns.

I think we need to be a teensy bit careful here when discussing the subject of Gina Miller just incase we say something that is not factual and cannot be proved as such .

So she has allegedly written a list of MP's who she believes people should vote for ? OK absolutely nothing wrong with that , I could do exactly the same if you give me a couple of hours and so could you .

You believe that she is bankrolling the MP's off her prefered list ? Any actual good old fashioned evidence of this or are we all to take your word for it ?

As I said above , be careful how you word your reply .

No, she is not subverting democracy.
She is openly and transparently funding a campaign she believes in.
Are "voting movements which are bankrolled by business leaders & which seek to throw money behind their pick of individuals who they think should be elected" always profoundly undemocratic?
Have you looked at the sources of UKIP's funding? Transparent they are not!
Was Arran Banks subverting democracy when he not only funded a political movement, but organised a huge, opaque social media campaign that made creative use of psychometric testing and meta data gathered in a surreptitious way? (He probably was, actually. But it was just about legal.)

Gina Miller's campaign is on nothing like the scale of "bankrolling by business leaders" that goes into other political parties/campaigns.

*I think we need to be a teensy bit careful here when discussing the subject of Gina Miller just incase we say something that is not factual and cannot be proved as such .

So she has allegedly written a list of MP's who she believes people should vote for ? OK absolutely nothing wrong with that , I could do exactly the same if you give me a couple of hours and so could you .

You believe that she is bankrolling the MP's off her prefered list ? Any actual good old fashioned evidence of this or are we all to take your word for it ?

As I said above , be careful how you word your reply .*

Did you watch her speech yesterday?
She has explicitly stated several times what her 'movement' is doing.
Richard Branson is one of the high profile backers.

So Bertrand, I i