To wonder wtf is going on in Wales?

[brexitstolemyfuture]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-labour-poll-wales-yogov-majority-seats-first-time-century-a7699776.html%3famp

Tories predicted to get a majority for the first time in a century. I thought this was fake news, but no it's real

I'm just wondering why the people of Wales think Brexit and a Tory government would be a good think for them.

No patronising, no name calling, no condescending tone. Just after some reasons.

I understand a general 'I'm voting for a change from the status quo' line of thought.

I don't understand why people think that change will be better? Do they just think it is worth a shot?

Or are there things said by Brexit politicians/Tories that appeal? One such statement would be that there is too much immigration and we need to control/slow it. Are there others? What do these voters think will happen if we reduce immigration and leave the EU?

I'm not saying they are right or wrong, I'd just like to here more of the actual reasoning and less of the 'Turkeys for Xmas' on one side and 'no wonder they aren't voting labour anymore' rhetoric on the other. Please

I get it.
Securing Brexit feels like fighting to maintain ground already won.
The thing is, Tories didn't need the election to do that. That's just spin. And sadly the potential risk is to secure that victory, you lose democracy. ECHR replaced with treacherous Tory Totalitarianism. After all the Tories are the same ones who didn't rush to save Tata steel a few months back. Who want to go back on their tax promises from last election and increase the self employed' NI contributions. Oh and privatise even more of the NHS whilst ignoring the social care crisis. May's husband's company benefits from privatisation of prisons.
I get that the other parties aren't exactly edifying either. Surely democratic Britain is safer if a landslide is avoided.
Ironic to vote to get British control back from Europe, but deliver that control at the behest of the spin doctors of Australia:Crosby and Murdoch.

For all those saying that they want something different and are fed up with the way things are. You do realise that we have had a Tory government for a good few years now don't you??

If money and investment, jobs and education haven't improved, whose to blame??

So people who actually knew what living with immigrants is like weren't swayed by that factor but people who didn't were.

Nope- still not getting why that shows Leave voters as well informed........

My feeling is that it IS an anti Labour and anti EU vote rather than a positive vote for the Tory party.

I think people think things will be worse under Labour with Corbyn (I quite like Corbyn but I wouldn't vote for him).

bakewell, in Wales lots of powers are devolved and the Welsh Assembly has been run by Labour for a while.

Humphrey - the assembly still needs approval from Westminster to pass any new legislative law.

They do not control employment, social security, defence, utilities and more.

A poster also mentioned impoverished people from Yorkshire considering voting Tory for the first time. Am I missing something? They are voting for what they currently have??

or against what they will have it they don't vote Tory?

Corbyn really does seem desperately unappealing for the majority.

But I thought the point was they wanted something 'different' and were deeply unhappy about what they currently have. But they will vote for the status quo I hoping for a different end?

Nope, I'm still missing something.

mumindoghouse Re this comment: "After all the Tories are the same ones who didn't rush to save Tata steel a few months back."

You might want to have a read of this article from Business Insider which argues that the British steel industry was negatively impacted by the EU on two fronts:

1. the relative weakness of the euro against the pound in 2016, which made exports to the eurozone uncompetitive; and
2. the Conservative government was prevented by EU law from bailing out the steel industry.

So while, yes, Wales did receive a lot in the way of handouts from the EU, it was also the EU that was causing damage to industry and threatening jobs in south Wales.

I know many people are incredulous that people don't think the same way as they do but it really does seem as if lots of people either think the Tory party are doing ok at running the country and Labour would not do a good job, or that the Tory party are doing a shit job of running the country and the Labour party would be even more shit.

Humphrey - I've not expressed my view so funny how you think I'm incredulous. Think you are just making assumptions now.

My point was very simple. Those who want change should vote for a different government. They hold the power not individual MPs. Voting for the same as what they have and hoping it will be different somehow is confusing to me.

I wasn't aiming that particularly at you bakewelltarty. It is the general tone of many people on this thread.

So if you're working class you have to vote Labour and if your middle class you have to vote Tory....that's ridiculous, you should vote for party that you believe in the most. Your background or social status should have no relevance.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the welsh council elections on 4th May.

You asked what was going on in Wales. I think the answer is democarcy. IE. People using their democratic right to vote for whoever they want to.

I'm thinking of boycotting Wales in protest.

There isn't another Assembly election for three years, so things will be very different by then.

I've said this before, but immigration is an issue, and if people had been allowed to discuss it without being accused of being racist and effectively told to shut up, we might not have had a Brexit vote (or now, a collapse in the Labour vote in Wales).

It is not just a "fear of strangers" or not wanting to hear Polish being spoken in Greggs, as someone put it on Twitter, it is legitimate to worry about resources - school places, getting appointments with GPs or green field house building without decent infrastructure. The UK government should and could have done a lot more to deal with these issue - but they were not allowed to be expressed as problems related to immigration because otherwise people were being racist. It was only ok if the population growth was from other parts of the UK (eg where I live we get a lot of people moving out of London to get cheaper and larger houses - on green field estates).

I voted to Remain and still hope in vain that something will happen to stop us leaving the EU. But I don't think it's very helpful to accuse Leave voters of being thick and racist, even though I've yet to hear from one how they think their everyday life will be better once we have left. I hear wishy washy things about sovereignty etc but nothing about everyday life.

As for Wales voting Tory - I guess it's the Corbyn effect. But they will get nothing from a Tory government. There is no way that the money that would have gone to the EU will be used for regional development. Probably because there will be so much bureaucracy that will need to be set up to replace EU bureacracy - but even if that was not the case, and money was going to be saved, there is no way on this earth that the Tories would provide similar funding. I know Michael Heseltine did something for northern cities in his day, but that was a different breed of Tory.

I suspect that it's the Corbyn effect

There is no way that the money that would have gone to the EU will be used for regional development

You don't know that though, you think it likely. None of us know.

I am not so despondent. But there is no point in saying so anywhere as it just gets me a load of abuse. But I really do think it. I see no reason to assume that the EU has a more moral stance on many things than Britain itself does.

bakewelltarty I'm surprised you think voting for Tory is not voting for a different government. Labour were in power for years up to 2010. Then it was a coalition government until 2015. A Conservative government has only been in power for 2 years so still is 'different' compared to the decades before.

I think a lot of people voted against their best interests in the last general election.

I'm thinking of boycotting Wales in protest.

You're thinking of boycotting Wales in protest of them exercising their democratic right to vote for whomever they want?

Why do you think your opinion re politics & parties is more valid than other people?

So if you're working class you have to vote Labour and if your middle class you have to vote Tory....that's ridiculous, you should vote for party that you believe in the most. Your background or social status should have no relevance.

Its a throw back, its traditionally what the parties stood for, but as we are generally a small c conservative country when JC was elected the tories grabbed the center.

Whats happening now has been happening since the end of the Blair/Brown years, a lot of the middle class voted for Labour because they actually wanted to look after the working class, Labour pandered more to the Middle class and ignored the working class's issues and just assumed they would automatically vote for them.

So much so that instead of looking inwards and looking at the rhetoric used, the vocal support became full of people like Bertrand who scoffs at the idea at why they are not thinking like them, they where happy with the "racist" UKIP voters when they voted for Labour and kept quite, but they cannot fathom "but why", despite many of the working class telling them, after the "but its the Tories!!" it becomes akin to union scab mentality.

Basically Labour banked on these people, they weren't listened to (hence a partial reason for brexit), and, in the case of Wales, are sick of being told that after being a labour stronghold it is still Thatchers fault.

the old saying goes, the right looks for converts while the left look for traitors

The last part is evident in this thread and will be evident for the next couple of weeks