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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's a bit late of the school to stop DS going on his residential trip now!

329 replies

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 15:34

DS1 is in year 6, has just been diagnosed as having autism and is finding the sats practice very stressful, as a result he refused to go into class this morning and instead sat outside waving a stick around.
The deputy called and said they were going to have to review whether he goes on the residential trip or not and probably wouldn't be able to.
AIBU to think that it's a bit late, the trip is straight after sats, DS is excited (which is rare) we have forked out nearly £200 for it and although the diagnosis was recent DS has been in the school for coming up 4 years, they should know him by now and be able to accommodate his needs.

OP posts:
Whynotnowbaby · 21/04/2017 15:41

Absolutely, if they are not making the trip inclusive for all pupils they should not be offering it at all. Especially as you have already paid (not that that makes any difference as they can't exclude him anyway).

Tell them calmly that you expect him to be accommodated and if they say they can't contact the head and governors stating you will be taking legal advice.

Spikeyball · 21/04/2017 15:48

They can not take him but only if there are no reasonable adjustments that could be made that mean he could go. If they say he can't go you can ask for it in writing why exactly he can't go.

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 15:52

That's what I thought. They are worried they won't be able to manage his behaviour but I don't see why they can't accommodate him and thus avoid the behaviour happening, obviously we can't guarantee it won't happen but there is a lot they can do to greatly minimise the chance and if it does happen they just need to step back and watch him so he isn't left and he will calm. Although personally I don't think that will happen. Nearly all of his behaviour is based around aniexty. He is always anxious about trips but the minute the bus pulls off he feels like he has overcome a hurdle and relaxes.

OP posts:
melj1213 · 21/04/2017 15:57

They are worried they won't be able to manage his behaviour but I don't see why they can't accommodate him and thus avoid the behaviour happening

Is this new behaviour or behaviour he has just started exhibiting though?

If it is exisiting behaviour that they have managed to deal with at school before then YANBU to expect them to manage it on the trip as it is something they are aware of.

However, if it is new behaviour, or behaviour that has severely ramped up recently and is now beyond his "normal" range then I think YABU to just expect them to deal with the change and take him on a residential regardless. If they couldn't get him to go into class today the worst thing that happens is that he's outside, but still on school property where there are plenty of people to supervise him and make sure he comes to no harm whilst still having enough people to cover the class and deal with the other children ... if they go on the residential and he gets so anxious as to refuse to do an activity, it might not be so straightforward/safe to just leave him to his own devices and then it becomes a safety and safeguarding issue.

Wolfiefan · 21/04/2017 16:02

If they take him they are responsible for keeping him safe. And all the other students.
If he won't follow instructions or starts waving sticks around I can see why they don't want to take him.

Astro55 · 21/04/2017 16:03

They may need an extra body to go -
DS residential was based on a behaviour system - 3 strikes and you weren't going

BUT there should be some adjustment for him.

I would say having done some trips that those who are usually badly behaved (for want of a better phrase) are usually the best kids to have outdoors doing activities

TheSnowFairy · 21/04/2017 16:05

Will he have a one on one person there? If not, surely you can see why the school may be concerned.

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 16:05

It is not new behaviour no, it's is slightly worse than before but only because they are failing to meet his needs in ways that are easily achieved without masses of work for the school.
It is also worse due to the fact he has a massive fear of Sats and nearly all of his tantrums/crying session at home link back to Sats so I am fairly confident that he will calm down again once they are over.
The school are trying to claim it is new behaviour which is why they are concerned but seeing as they have previously banned him from breakfast club/excluded him and complained about his attendance when late due to meltdowns it is clearly not new and each time we have pulled them up on it and got a plan in place the behaviour has stopped. Unfortunately they are just very reactive rather than proactive. We always warn them about triggers that will set him off, they always wait until it does.

OP posts:
Astro55 · 21/04/2017 16:09

I totally get what you are saying!!

I worked with one austisic child who would sit outside with a stick and left alone would soon come inside (obviously being watched without being seen)

Sometimes others caused issues that aren't seen by the teacher and trying to get a child to back track the cause is frustrating because the over reaction is what the school are dealing with rather than the root cause of the issue in the first place!

Yes they over react - but you need to quick to see the cause

OneInEight · 21/04/2017 16:09

Our school solved this problem by asking dh to accompany the dc and taking responsibility for any behavioural issues. We offered but were not asked to pay anything extra as the residential centre considered him as staff.

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 16:09

Astronomy yes I have worked with children that need a system like that and you only don't send them if you really cant. He will love it if he goes. He is excited about it. He negative behaviour only happens when he is anxious or unsure about something. He is not anxious or unsure about the trip.

No Snow fairy he won't have a 1:1, I can understand the school having concerns but they have known he was going since the start of the year and he has had incidents before this one, when he lost his place at breakfast we had a meeting where I made it clear that I wouldn't be paying the balance of the trio if they weren't sure they could manage his needs. At that point, less than two months ago they reassured me they had no concerns

OP posts:
Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 16:11

Astro not Astronomy sorry bloody auto correct.

Yes this school only deals with the behaviour they see not the root cause and I totally sympathise because you can't see everything and missing the odd situation I get, but still not getting a child four years down the line, well all I can say is I'm glad it's only one term to go

OP posts:
Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 16:13

Oneineight, technically I will be back at work that week (on sick leave and consultant is thinking about extending it so may still be off) however it's over a weekend and I would be happy to go for the majority of it if that was required.

OP posts:
Jaxhog · 21/04/2017 16:14

Really sad for you both. But look at it from the school's point of view. If they genuinely think they can't manage him without putting the other students at risk, then they really have no choice. Remember, that on an out-of-school trip, especially a residential one, the ability for effective intervention is drastically reduced. Imagine how you'd feel if he kicked off and ruined the trip for everyone else.

Wolfiefan · 21/04/2017 16:15

They may not be anticipating his needs but in that case I'm not sure I would want him going anyway.
You say you understand their concerns. You're only fairly certain he will calm down after SATS. How is the school supposed to be sure then?
School trips can be risky. Taking a child who may not listen to instructions or may act out (sorry can't think of a better way to put it) is daft.
Can you offer to go with as a 1 to 1? Collect him if necessary?

Yellowcups · 21/04/2017 16:17

If the teachers couldn't get your child back into the classroom today, how do you propose they do it when on the residential trip. carry him in? make 20 other children 'hang around' while 3/4 teachers try to cajole him into doing as he needs to?

I think you need to see it from the schools perspective.

Italiangreyhound · 21/04/2017 16:17

Englishrose the school are behaving in a ridiculous, lazy and cruel way. Have you got a meeting booked to discuss this?

If so get all their arguments/thoughts, from them first, then counter with your evidence that this is existing behaviour.

Put a plan in place together about how to manage his behavior before the trip and on the trip.

I am assuming you are reading up on anxiety in children and how to handle it. If so, you may know more than the teachers! So share what you know and help them come up with a plan.

If you are not happy with what is happening speak to the governors or senior leaders.

If they have taken your deposit and money knowing about the problems they are now using to say he should not go, have they taken your money under false pretenses?

Of course I don't think they have but I do think they are scared and you need to both reassure them how to cope with this behaviour, new manifestations of existing behavior. Plus also make sure they know the human cost of their actions in terms of lack of trust (him and you) and lack of motivation (him).

Going into secondary school with lack of motivation and lack of trust and anxiety is a very bad idea!

Hope it works out.

mygorgeousmilo · 21/04/2017 16:20

To exclude him from a trip because of behaviour that directly relates to his condition is illegal under the equalities act. They simply cannot do that legally, and if they push it ask for it in writing. If it's deemed necessary for him to have additional support during the trip, then it is the school's responsibility to provide this. Not yours.

ASDismynormality · 21/04/2017 16:24

Ring the centre and see what accommodations they are able to make for children with disabilities. My son is going on a residential trip this year, his 1-1 is going as his carer. Suggest to the school you or your husband attend or stay near by.

0dfod · 21/04/2017 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LuluJakey1 · 21/04/2017 16:25

I think if they have seen this behaviour regularly and are fully aware of it, they should have put a plan in place and a risk assessment so they were clear how they would handle it.

However, if his behaviour has worsened and the school genuinely feel they may not now be able to manage it, they have every right to refuse to take him. Health and safety is their responsibility- his, other students, staff and anyone else affected by it. So depending on what it is, they could refuse and be being reasonable.

alltouchedout · 21/04/2017 16:25

You can see why the school think it's fine to do this, though- just look at some of the responses on this thread, from people who seem to think the answer is to exclude children with additional needs because their presence is an inconvenience Hmm.

Legally, I don't know whether the school can do this. Morally, they shouldn't. They should have worked with you since the trip was first raised to come up with a plan which would enable him to take part safely.

Astro55 · 21/04/2017 16:29

I think you need to see it from the schools perspective

The school perspective should be inclusivity -

They are there to educate and assist all children

He's not being naughty for the sake of it (lots of NT children are capable of this) he's reacting to an unknown situation.

School should've cottoned on to this already

ParadiseCity · 21/04/2017 16:32

My DC are not diagnosed with any SEN and they are used to being accommodating towards their friends with SEN. Sometimes there is a tipping point though when accommodating becomes too much (eg DS always being sat by the boy who punches because DS is understanding and doesn't retaliate.... DD being too scared to stand in line with the girl who flips if she thinks you are looking at her... class being evacuated due to meltdowns).

In your situation it doesn't sound as though your DS is impacting on the other children when they are at school but would the same apply on the trip?

miwelaisjacydo · 21/04/2017 16:36

The school does not have a leg to stand on. I would want a meeting with the school and would want to also get in touch with IPSEA.