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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's a bit late of the school to stop DS going on his residential trip now!

329 replies

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 15:34

DS1 is in year 6, has just been diagnosed as having autism and is finding the sats practice very stressful, as a result he refused to go into class this morning and instead sat outside waving a stick around.
The deputy called and said they were going to have to review whether he goes on the residential trip or not and probably wouldn't be able to.
AIBU to think that it's a bit late, the trip is straight after sats, DS is excited (which is rare) we have forked out nearly £200 for it and although the diagnosis was recent DS has been in the school for coming up 4 years, they should know him by now and be able to accommodate his needs.

OP posts:
GreatWhites · 21/04/2017 18:38

Providing extra support staff would generally be regarded as being a reasonable adjustment.

Not when numbers of support staff are at an all-time low and it means the school being left without a first aider, or another child's 1-1 going on residential.

GreatWhites · 21/04/2017 18:38

Or even just support staff not being able to leave their own families!

Trifleorbust · 21/04/2017 18:40

Spikeyball:

Only if staff are available and the school can provide them without disadvantaging or endangering others.

Spikeyball · 21/04/2017 18:42

Nevertheless it is still generally regarded as a reasonable adjustment.

Trifleorbust · 21/04/2017 18:43

Spikeyball:

I don't understand what you mean by 'nevertheless'. It isn't reasonable if it isn't possible.

Spikeyball · 21/04/2017 18:48

The school would have to show they had done all they possibly could to provide support staff in order to argue that it wasn't a reasonable adjustment.

SomethingBorrowed · 21/04/2017 18:50

Good point trifle

Bestthingever · 21/04/2017 18:56

This happened to a boy in my ds's class. He was told only a month before the trip. I felt really sorry for him as I do for your ds. However having gone on many school trips (as a TA) including residential, I can totally understand why the staff feel they can't guarantee the safety of your ds and other children.
Once, I went on a trip where they had given one boy 'the benefit of the doubt' because they didn't want him to feel left out, despite a track record of running off. He got cross with his friends during a group activiti and ran off. Three members of staff had to go looking for him. It was very stressful and spoiled the trip for everyone, never mind compromising the safety of other pupils.

MerryMarigold · 21/04/2017 18:59

My ds1 went on his residential recently. There was an autistic boy in class who went. I don't think it's acceptable at all to exclude him. They are all stressed about Sats and it's coming out. What does the senco say?

Itstimetoduel · 21/04/2017 19:03

I get what you're saying and I can empathise with your POV while not fully understanding it but I've experienced this from the other side so that's where I'm coming from. You've said that this is an escalation in terms of behaviour and because of the stress. To you, this seems like a small escalation and something that could have been anticipated whereas to the school a child absolutely refusing to move from somewhere is an incredible h+s risk which they had not planned for and now, devil's advocate, can't accommodate on this short notice (I know my school at end of year have literally spent every penny). You think he will calm down after the SATS but you don't know. The school, to fulfil its legal responsibilities, have to assume this is how the behaviour will be on the trip.

I think generally there is a disconnect between schools and parents because the home/school environment is just so different and neither can really understand the other person's POV while you want what is best for your child (fair) and the school want what is best for all children (also fair). I'd be wary generally if the need was "a comprehensive understanding of what will happen will enable him to stay calm" just because taking kids on trips is so changeable itself. You end up with daft situations like idk, he ends up sharing a room with a kid has nightmares and wakes up screaming and no one suggested that as a possibility etc, or the activity not going ahead as planned because of rain. Were I you, I would definitely focus less on that as you approach the school about how they must try and accommodate him. There's no easy answers and of course you should push and push for the school to fulfil its obligations re: the equalities act but do keep in mind that they're probably not being malicious. They probably will think you're being a PITA but that's on them. Keep fighting for your kid, bring up some of the great suggestions on this thread if they don't suggest them themselves (and remind them that you shouldn't have to bring things to them!) and ultimately the decision that will be made will be in the best interests of everyone which might end up sucking for you, but hopefully won't.

Astro55 · 21/04/2017 19:05

He got cross with his friends

So actually the 'friends' wound him up and yet it's was his fault the trip was spoilt?

Tell me ... did the 'friends' get spoken too about their behaviour?

Because that's the cause - not his reaction

Bloody hell and you're a TA?

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 19:12

Isittimetoduel- yes their can be a disconnection between parents and home and yes I know I may be a PITA at times but I am a t.a who has worked in many schools, working with children with additional needs including Autism. I have been on vast amounts of training course including pips, thrive, safe guarding etc and if we treated a child in this was I would be horrified by our behaviour. It is the nature in which they have done this and the lack of communication that is causing the most problems.
If they couldn't cope they should of said at the beginning of the year, as I have said, this behaviour is new this week, but not totally new, not unexpected and quite manageable.

OP posts:
Itstimetoduel · 21/04/2017 19:13

@astro55 where are you getting that his friends 'wound him up' from?? I once had a kid get cross because his friends didn't laugh at his homophobic joke and told him to knock it off, so no, I didn't shout at them.

GreatWhites · 21/04/2017 19:21

It is extremely common to warn all children going on residential that their place is dependent on behaviour.

His behaviour has noticeably deteriorated over the past week. They could not have predicted that when you paid.

It is clearly unmanageable if it took around an hour to persuade him to put down the stick and go into class. In his current frame of mind taking him on a residential looks extremely risky.

Even as a teacher I have gone on residentials where I don't know the timetable, or it has changed because the sun has come out, the rain has come on, a particular piece of equipment has been judged unsafe. It doesn't sound to me as though your DS could cope with that in his current frame of mind.

As he doesn't have a 1-1 currently, it seems extremely likely that any TAs in the school are either allocated to another child.

I think YABU.

Itstimetoduel · 21/04/2017 19:25

I can't speak to their communication and, also having worked in schools, I can happily and easily believe it's terrible Smile but again, and there's not really any point going back and forth on this, from their POV something has significantly changed - he has now refused to follow instructions completely even when it put him in an unsafe position. Is this really an escalation they should have predicted? If you have other examples of this happening (stress = complete lack of cooperation) defs bring that up when you meet with them. Remember for them, this is a huge risk, potentially one that is impossible to mitigate given the timeline that they have and, without trying to sound dramatic, a potentially life-threatening one. I took a kid on a trip once, similar situation, and it was fine. I took another and sure enough, he refused to get off the coach and we had to rotate staff members for 13 hours back and forth to this coach which meant we were understaffed and creating a huge safeguarding risk no matter what we did (2 staff with child meant 2 staff down with other 30 kids). In your case, the school have evidence that this might happen - the fact it has happened before so if you have any evidence that they knew, much sooner, that this was something that had the potential to happen make sure you hammer them with it.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 21/04/2017 19:26

So actually the 'friends' wound him up and yet it's was his fault the trip was spoilt?

How do you know the friends wound him up just because he got cross? Confused

A couple of weeks ago. DS asked for rice krispies at breakfast. Ten minutes later he changed his mind and got cross that I'd made him what he asked for. I didn't 'wind him up' he just got cross. It does happen.

Bestthingever · 21/04/2017 19:26

Astro it's a massive assumption to say his friends wound him up. IIn fact he got cross because he wanted to do everything by himself and not let anyone else join in. His friends were being, as usual, incredibly patient.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 21/04/2017 19:29

Providing extra support staff would generally be regarded as being a reasonable adjustment.

Well that depends doesn't it. DCs school is rather small. Limited staff. There is no extra support.

To the PP who mentioned about the budget for such a thing. That's irrelevant. SENs funding is fluent.

Besides. The OP already said it's not 1:1 needed on the residential.

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 19:36

Itismytimetoduel- I think Astro was referring to bestthingevers post.

GreatWhites- his behaviour has not noticeably deteriorated. They could have easily have predicted, seeing as we told them what his triggers were and gave them nearly a years warning about Sats. If they had accepted he wasn't doing them and didn't keep going against recommendations it wouldnt have got to this point. He has had one bad day, despite being anxious all week but today escalated due to teachers telling him to do one thing and t.a's another and him not coping with that. Yes he had a stick but he didn't threaten anyone with a stick.

They can request the timetable for residentials, let him know what the wet weather alternatives are etc, he really will cope fine with preparation and part of that preparation is letting him know areas that might be uncertain.

I may have to accept that they won't take him but I will fight it. If they really can't see a way of keeping him safe and keeping everyone else safe and exhaust all options, of course I will accept it but they haven't even tried.

I have only ever known one child not to go on a trip and it was a trip that was not in a contained place like my DS residential would be. The parents were not prepared to work with us and the child did not want to go. We are prepared to work with them, stay be by, stay with them for most of it, have as many meetings as needed, give them as much information as they want etc.

OP posts:
SideOrderofSprouts · 21/04/2017 19:37

Yabu I think

Whilst the behaviour might not seem
New or excessive to you it might be different actually in school. If there is not
Sufficient staff then they have to make hard
Choices

Can you go and be his 1 to 1?

Itstimetoduel · 21/04/2017 19:37

SEN funding is sort of fluid in that, potentially more exists for new problems, in reality attempting to wrestle that from the LEA at short notice is as good as impossible. Consequently schools have their SEN budget, often topped up somewhat by the PP cash because there is never enough money for SEN, and it is all gone by now.

Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 19:41

With regards to staffing it is a large school with two year sixes and 4 teachers across year six. They also have a lot of flexible staff which move where needed, i.e all of them are working in yr six for sats but have previously all gone on trips with the younger years, worked in year groups that need more intervention etc so I would appear staffing is quite flexible.

OP posts:
Original poster
EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 19:44

Side orders of sprouts. It's not new to school, it's just they haven't had it for a while because the teacher and I have worked together on a plan. The teacher however can't go against the management team r.e sats and that is why his aniexty is heightened, and then you have the issue of staff not managing a manageable situation. It honestly was completely avoidable and when the correct process happened he was inside five minutes later.

OP posts:
Crispbutty · 21/04/2017 19:46

I work at a place that has schools coming for residential activity weeks. If one child panics or refuses to follow instruction it can be very difficult for the leaders to safely continue with some of the activities and is also unfair on the other children too.

befuddledgardener · 21/04/2017 19:47

I would like much more detail because I'm concerned you might be minimising or the school might be struggling to relay the extent of his behaviour.

All children need natural consequences and a positive structure. Staff also need to keep kids safe.

What is it you son is doing exactly?