To think it's a bit late of the school to stop DS going on his residential trip now!

[EnglishRose1320]

DS1 is in year 6, has just been diagnosed as having autism and is finding the sats practice very stressful, as a result he refused to go into class this morning and instead sat outside waving a stick around.
The deputy called and said they were going to have to review whether he goes on the residential trip or not and probably wouldn't be able to.
AIBU to think that it's a bit late, the trip is straight after sats, DS is excited (which is rare) we have forked out nearly £200 for it and although the diagnosis was recent DS has been in the school for coming up 4 years, they should know him by now and be able to accommodate his needs.

To all those who have mentioned his behaviour having an impact on the others on the trip, health and safety issues etc are you saying that I tell my son that now he is officially Autistic he isn't safe to be around other children? I know that seems an over reaction but that is the message DS will take from it if the school decide not to let him go. I work in schools are I appreciate they need to keep everyone safe but they have had a year. We started this year with a meeting where we mentioned that both Sats and a residential trip were things that would be new to him so possible trigger points, they have had plenty of time to come up with a plan.

Have e mailed asking for a meeting and will be making a list, bringing along information that backs up our case, oh is working from home one day next week so hoping we can both go in.

To the person that asked about removing him from Sats, we have asked, the school are refusing (but may finally be coming round to it) currently in the process of getting a doctor's note

If he wont have the 1:1 I can see the schools concerns too tbh, and I'm saying that as someone who as a DC with ASD.

OP, are they saying they need a 1:1 with him on the residential?

To all those who have mentioned his behaviour having an impact on the others on the trip, health and safety issues etc are you saying that I tell my son that now he is officially Autistic he isn't safe to be around other children?

No. No one is saying that. You're understandably angry and I feel you are misinterpreting what some people are trying to helpfully say to you. I can't say too much as outing but my DS has ASD, another child in his class has ASD. The school have to accommodate for them both, both have very different needs, they also need to accommodate for all the other class pupils. Said child has a 1:1 at lunchtime because of their behaviour, they've been acting up at breaktimes recently with their behaviour, when x doesn't have the 1:1. So what people are trying to say to you is, you can see the schools point of view if they feel they cant guarantee it won't happen on the trip, given they are of the view that it is new behaviour he is exhibiting.

Point out to me where anyone on this thread has said he's not safe around other children because he is autistic, OP? They have not. They have queried whether he will be safe on the trip because there will not be the staff to sit with him if he won't join in an activity. He may have had meltdowns at school before, but if this refusing to sit in the classroom is new I can see their concerns. It is is this new behaviour aspect that they are concerned about.

They haven't said they need a 1:1, they have simply decided last minute that they might not be able to cope. They have no timeline for their decision making, they don't seem to listen at all. DS will cope and be so much calmer if they let him know what is going on. They know he has had more to cope with than usual this half term and knew the start back would be tricky, they also know he likes routine and copes well if he is prepared for things. They have the ability and numbers to take him and give him an amazing time and really make the end of his primary school years a positive thing and they are going to throw that away because they messed up

Most of these centres are pretty well set up for children with sn. Activities outside are not the same as lessons or exams. They really should be starting off by thinking about how they can make it so he does go. Frustrating as his behaviour around the sats is the trip should not depend on this. Ask for a meeting where you all think about the schedule and activities and plan what problems might occur and what yhey will do in each scenario. It is called a risk assessment. In schools I have worked kids with all kinds of issues have been on trips v successfully as long as it is well planned aand thought through. Will he follow safety instructions? What kind of things will he be doing?

Sorry I was trying to get across that he will take it that way. I know you weren't saying that because he is Autistic he isnt safe I was trying to explain that if he is told he can't go because of those reason I fear he will think that

To make a decision that they can't make sufficient reasonable adjustments there should be a risk assessment putting down what points are the issues, what IS possible to do as reasonable adjustment and which issues can't be met. Can you ask if they can share this if it's specific to your ds? If they haven't done one specific to your ds in looking at this decision as well as the risk assessment being made for the whole group, then yes, they are on potentially dodgy ground equality wise and this needs doing before they can make final decisions.

If they've let you pay and been expecting up until this point that your ds would be going along, and been happy with that, then it would seem that something has changed to make them concerned. It is such a huge responsibility to take children on a residential, it's about separating out what concerns, risks and issues there might be, what ways there are to minimise those risks, and whether how possible and how assured those ways can be within the set whole group staffing/budget/accomodation.

Having said that I have two with asd and when my youngest was in mainstream it was clear to me that the resisential wouls be too much for her and I knew she wouls not really enjoy it either. A compromise of attending one of the days and coming home in the evening worked well for her but if I had thought she could have coped and enjoyed herself I would have pushed them to take her and offered to collect if necessary.

because they are failing to meet his needs in ways that are easily achieved without masses of work for the school.

Are these needs something they could reasonably provide in a residential setting over a few days?

Or because they can see that he is finding this half term especially stressful and are concerned that this may continue into the trip. They recognize they are struggling to cope with his stress levels this terms and the exhibited behaviour, and are worried that the behaviours may climax during the trip. This is a new concern, and they have not made arrangements in terms of additional staff to cope with it. Schools can only deal with the here and now. They didn't have a crystal ball to be able to predict how stressful he was going to find this half term, nor how his behaviours would change.

All you can do is work with the school to discuss how these new stresses and bathe ions are impacting him right now, determine if they would be able to cope with additional staff (probably 1-1 for the duration of the trip so ds and the other students can be safeguarded appropriately) and ask them to provide it in line with his new diagnosis.

I understand yours is an emotional reaction, but in terms of advocating for your child, you have to be able to reduce the emotion levels and deal with the school on a rational and professional basis.

Please make an appointment with the SENCo and year head, or whoever is organizing the trip, and go through their concerns and how/ if they can be mitigated.

This is a new diagnosis for you, so although it was expected, you now have something you can use sensibly in order to request formal support and a way to ensure the school do meet their obligations to ds.

. A compromise of attending one of the days and coming home in the evening worked well for her but if I had thought she could have coped and enjoyed herself I would have pushed them to take her and offered to collect if necessary.

Yes I've seen similar happen with my friends DCs with SNs too. Attending a couple of days or a couple of evenings, or where there's been a parent or a caregiver able to, they've gone instead to help the child.

I doubt they came to this decision without having some proper discussions and risk assessments etc, if they did then yes by all means give them hell.

If he were physically disabled, they wouldn't expect him to cope with the demands of PE by, for example, getting up out of his wheelchair and walking, because the lesson involves having legs.

FFS, they HAVE to accommodate him and it is THEIR problem to solve. You can advise and assist but they can't exclude him in the grounds of his disability.

because they are failing to meet his needs in ways that are easily achieved without masses of work for the school.

But that's in a contained school environment with a rigid structured routine, a residential environment is a whole other ballgame. Pardon the pun.

You can advise and assist but they can't exclude him in the grounds of his disability.

Playing devils advocate here. They're not excluding him on the grounds of his disability. They're asserting, they're excluding him on the grounds of his behaviour (yes i know they're part and parcel but the OP said its new behaviour he's exhibiting didnt they? If not I apologise and I'm happy to stand corrected) if I've read the OP right.

Re sats, I have 2 autistic kids and mine went through sats last year. He couldn't cope in the hall with all the other kids so was given special permission to do his in the heads office on his own, would that be an idea?
Also, mine went on residential, there was never a question he wouldn't. I offered to be on hand if he couldn't cope, and would have collected him immediately.

What exactly do you mean by "waving a stick around?" If you mean Wafting it around as if like a ribbon or scarf, that's one thing. If it was taken to be threatening gestures to other children or to adults, that may be why they're wondering about managing escalating behaviour.

I think they need to make reasonable provisions for him to attend, and if that means taking an extra member of staff then that is what needs to be done. It's illegal for them to treat him differently because of his autism, and that includes autism related behaviour.

Our school sensibly had the Y6 residential already.

OP. Hope you get it sorted either way.

Away with the pixies, not new behaviour. Slightly more than average but no different to any other period of change that he hasn't been prepared for. Periods of change that we have known about and the school have worked with us on, very little in the way of acting out type behaviour. Periods of change that we know about but the school won't engage or ones we don't know about reactions like this are more common. Which is why I feel if things are put in place we can be reasonably sure (almost certain- but nothing is 100%) that it will go really well.

Slightly more than average but no different to any other period of change that he hasn't been prepared for.

What do you mean by more than average though? Do you mean behaviours that the school is used to managing but have been exacerbated because of the added stress of SATs?

The bit about him not being prepared for says would have me concerned. DD has been practicing them since forever! Not sure who's more sick of looking at past papers, her or me!

I'm a teacher who has just got back from a Y6 residential.
It's a completely different scenario to being able to manage behaviour in school.
Ultimately if a child can't be trusted to follow instructions (e.g. him refusing to come into class) then they are potentially a danger to themselves or someone else assuming this is an outdoor activities type residential. Please understand that this is different to a child having a meltdown.

I've got two children with autism. For us, this decision would be the right one, dd will not be going on her school journey next year. I understand that you and your child don't feel this way though. I agree with others that it is actually illegal to exclude him without making the necessary adjustments to allow him to attend.

I would suggest having a look at/getting in touch with the National Autistic Society and/or Ambitious about autism both will have information about inclusion for children with ASD and iirc are quite hot on the legalities around excluding children with ASD from any aspect of mainstream school life. They may be able to give advice that gives you weight in your meeting with the school.