To think it's a bit late of the school to stop DS going on his residential trip now!

[EnglishRose1320]

DS1 is in year 6, has just been diagnosed as having autism and is finding the sats practice very stressful, as a result he refused to go into class this morning and instead sat outside waving a stick around.
The deputy called and said they were going to have to review whether he goes on the residential trip or not and probably wouldn't be able to.
AIBU to think that it's a bit late, the trip is straight after sats, DS is excited (which is rare) we have forked out nearly £200 for it and although the diagnosis was recent DS has been in the school for coming up 4 years, they should know him by now and be able to accommodate his needs.

I don't really understand the problem to be honest.

If his behaviour has deteriorated because he isn't prepared for sats then why haven't you prepared him? It's not like it's a surprise after all.

However, since his behaviour is linked to the stress of the sats then just tell him he doesn't need to do them, and the school that he won't be there. Problem solved.

Maybe the floating staff were tied up elsewhere?

What does the 'plan' consist of?

Is it something that can apply in an outdoor setting?

I think it's quite natural for most kids to be stressed about sats. The school puts kids under a huge amount of pressure

Nokidshere- we asked the school to work with us to prepare him at the beginning of the year and they didn't engage. When it became apparent that we couldn't help him much when we didn't know how things were in school we decided to pull him from the sats. Had to wait a while for his consultant appointment, consultant agreed but said a letter wasn't needed, she was wrong. Letter still needed and school won't stop him practising until they see the letter. Letter should arrive in time for actual sats but not much good for practices.

That's good news. He can practice knowing he isn't going to have to actually do the tests

It's totally wrong. DD's school have a policy, I read it today, which states that no child will be excluded from a residential because of SEN and that no parent will be made to come along as a condition of their child going.

we asked the school to work with us to prepare him at the beginning of the year and they didn't engage

Okay. But DDs class (year 6) have been doing says practice since just after Christmas. They did none before. I'm presuming the teachers themselves don't know what they need to practice for until they have a clue what they're going to be asked for. I don't think any school could possibly expected to start preparing for sats as far back as September so I'm confused what you mean by they didn't engage there. What would you have liked them to do?

Sorry I didn't want to drip feed and thought I had put enough in the op, so to set out today, DS wasn't keen to go to school, never is but got dressed, got in the car and walked into school without much more than a grumble. Did not want to go into class, met the t.a he has 1:1 for settling in by the office. He didnt want me to go and wanted to come home with me. We sat be reception and chatted with his t.a, tried to persuade him/get him to talk but he wasn't keen. I then had to leave because the taxi to take me home had arrived (post op can't drive, oh drops off but has to dash to work)
He followed me across the playground and tried to leave with me (not new, has done this before when panicking) then he climbed onto a bench and clung onto the fence (again not new and had the t.a not needed to go somewhere else 99% chance he would have talked to her and got down)
At this point they (another t.a had come out to swap) told him he would not be able to go on the residential and he got upset and refused to come off when asked. A teacher came out and said he couldn't stay there because small children were coming out but he could sit on the field until he felt ready, DS complied and moved to the field. Then first t.a came out and told him he couldn't be there, this upset and confused him. He was playing with a stick, running it along a fence and turned to talk to her and was waving it as he did so ( this was how the deputy phrased when she called) another member of staff was called and rather than try and reason with DS as everyone else had done he pointed out an ants nest and DS asked if he could take a photo of it and then go in. If he is anxious distraction works. He has only ever been anxious on one school trip ever, well he has only ever got upset due to aniexty on one trip. A teacher that he didn't know told him to eat his lunch in a different order, DS laid down and refused to move, his teacher pointed out a seal in the water, he was fine. I don't think I am minimising. I might be without meaning to. I think his behaviour is concerning and I think a meeting needs to happen to discuss the trip and work out of a plan can be put in place but I am reasonably sure it could be.

Away with the pixies they started from October half term and in September we asked to be kept in the loop with regards to Sats and that DS would find it easier if when they knew the plans he had a timetable to reflect that. We didn't ask them to do anything different. I think probably we didn't actually ask enough, because I work in a school I am always very wary of being a pain but I think I should have made his needs clearer. However I have made them clear since with plenty of time for them to implement things.

I think YABU to think the school should allow him on the trip when his behaviour has deteriorated to an extent that he won't enter the classroom for an hour. If this happened on the trip during an activity it would mean all the other children would miss the activity whilst the teacher spent an hour dealing with your sons behaviour. The solution to me to allow him to go would be for him to have a 1:1.if that's not available why can't you do it?

At least then he gets to go and you can look after him if he refuses an activity. If he is that unpredictable with change I would have thought a residential would be a daft idea anyway as he's bound to get too stressed to deal with anything as often there are changes to schedules and activities.

At my ds school it was made clear that if behaviour was bad or disruptive a child would be excluded from the trip - for the safety and well being of themselves and other children. Why should it be any different just because your son has Sen? The behaviour would be just as much putting him and others at risk as a nt child with behaviour problems. If the staff can't cope with him, they can't cope. Forcing them to take him won't change that fact.

In the era of massive, deeply felt school cuts the school may not be able to afford to accommodate his increasing needs on a trip, and then it becomes a safeguarding issue.

Why was the other staff member called?

That incident involved a lot of staff

I think it's quite normal for staff to move children along, particularly as spaces are timetabled for different activities throughout the school day.

The school are failing to make reasonable adjustments for him now around his anxiety in school and as a result are threatening to exclude him from a trip for his behaviour. His behaviour has deteriorated due to their failing in the first place. Reasonable adjustments can be made on the trip to keep him and other children safe.

Your argument to them - there is both current and threatened disability discrimination here. Not only is this a moral failing it is also a legal failing. Stand your groud if you truely believe he will cope with the trip with them making adjustments.

If an adult came into a room and kicked a chair and swore - would you tell them 'It's not acceptable and you won't be doingX X?'

Or would you ask them what the matter was? Make them a coffee??

Different standards

Sounds like he does need a 1:1 support allocating to him. As a parent it is easy to see what is required but the teacher and TA have other kids to deal with and may not have the time to spend waiting it out or distracting your ds. I also think you need to build up a good relationship to know what will and won't work with a particular child. In your shoes I would probably:
ask for a meeting to discuss how he is struggling at the moment
possibly get some advice from IPsea or SOS sen on how to get more support for him. You can book a telephone advice call.
Ask for risk assessment on the trip which is specific to him looking at all the issues
make it clear that his behaviour is related to his disability and therefore the trip should not be used as a punishment or reward

Are they seriously asking him to pull out because of his disability or are they able to professionally distinguish between the autism and just naughty behaviour. As an autistic child he should receive what used to be called statemented support, from a TA or LSA. This goes with them when they go. Sometimes they may ask a parent to accompany them. However, they cannot discriminate because of his disability. Find out now, what their plans are... a simple "surely you are not suggesting he miss out because of his autism?" Should do the trick

Am happy to go with him if needed, he is keen to go and think it would be fantastic for him to go without me but am happy to go if that is the only option.

The large amount of staff was an error on their part because if the first member of staff had stuck to the usual methods of calming him/encouraging him it wouldn't have got to a point where more staff were needed.

If I felt they couldn't cope and it would be unsafe I wouldn't have let him go. We have had meetings with the lead teacher for the trip who is happy for him to go, even after similar incidents.

My friends DS is disabled and in a wheelchair his school suggested he missed out on a trip to a city because they would need an extra member of staff topush his chair when she asked for it in writing they instantly back tracked. No advice other than fight for your DS

Mimsy a good friend of ds's is in a wheelchair and he isn't going on the trip because they made it so awkward when it came to accommodating his needs and I have had to go on trips to help him out when his parents couldn't and school wouldn't.

Madwoman5, statements have never automatically come with ft TA or LSA support, and have always been harder to get for children with autism. Not helpful to make blanket statements like that. A diagnosis is helpful in terms of proving need, but is not a passport to ft 1-1.

Just wanting to make that clear - I've used lots of madwoman usernames and wouldn't want that type of statement attributed to me!

The only thing that will qualify him for additional support is the way his disability affects his ability to access his education. So laying on the floor/ refusing to come inside is all a way in to discussions with the school. If they believe that these types of occasion can be handled with little to no additional support, merely training the staff better in how to spot triggers and react appropriately, then he won't get any additional support. But in that case, it would seem there is no reason for him to miss the trip if there isn't the time or funding to provide additional staff.

I would be wary about sending a child who was unpredictable with routine changes away without additional support, though. It has all sorts of potential to backfire horribly.

Dd2 is travelling internationally with school next month and they are sending an additional staff member. She hasn't had 1-1 support for quite some time (years) but the school recognize that the different environment and change in activities as a direct result of the trip environment, could present problems and have put these measures in place to support her as there is room in the budget to do so. This is a longstanding relationship though, not a new diagnosis where behaviours may have changed recently and caused concern.

Good luck with liaising with the school, op. I'm sure it can be sorted out so that ds and his peers are safeguarded appropriately.

Thanks littleoldladywho, yes I know how hard statements are to get and know that DS would never meet the thresholds to get one.

I don't think the main thing is whether they can cope or not. I think the main thing is the timing and how they handled it. I don't think they aibu to question safety but they aibu to do it now when it has been brought up repeatedly at tacs and other meetings. As parents we had concerns after the last incident- we asked whether they were confident they could cope and we were reassured by members going on the trip and felt it was fine to proceed as if he was going. This incident was no bigger than that, if anything less dramatic but slightly longer. We could of not paid the second half at that point, explained the situation clearly to DS and prepared him for not going. It's okay for schools not to cope with everything and not to be able to provide everything, it's impossible to sort everything out, it's the not trying/the lack of communication and the extra distress they caused DS that I object to.

I think the fact that you have paid is irrelevant. If he can't have a one to one person on the trip I would really worry. The fact that so many people had to be involved would make me question whether a school trip with the normal quota of staff would be safe.
I think you are minimising how out of his comfort zone a residential may prove to be and how much his behaviour is having an impact at school.

I just can't understand why you want to insist that the school aren't communicating 'properly' but you're so keen for him to go on a residential?

In the context of a residential, distraction is not really a great tactic. If your son needs to follow safety instructions or briefings, he cannot be distracted by ants' nest.