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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think it's a bit late of the school to stop DS going on his residential trip now!

329 replies

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 15:34

DS1 is in year 6, has just been diagnosed as having autism and is finding the sats practice very stressful, as a result he refused to go into class this morning and instead sat outside waving a stick around.
The deputy called and said they were going to have to review whether he goes on the residential trip or not and probably wouldn't be able to.
AIBU to think that it's a bit late, the trip is straight after sats, DS is excited (which is rare) we have forked out nearly £200 for it and although the diagnosis was recent DS has been in the school for coming up 4 years, they should know him by now and be able to accommodate his needs.

OP posts:

MsGameandWatch · 21/04/2017 17:38

I will actually be taking dd out for a holiday during the school journey and I am wondering if there will be any resistance to this.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 21/04/2017 17:39

WombatStewForTea yes I can see where you're coming from with that aspect. One of DSs issues is his lack of awareness of danger, ie today walking home playing with his sister, next minute impulsively running into the road, thankfully we live in a quite residential area traffic wise! not so much noise nuisance but can see why it might throw up other issues.

What would you suggest the OP did in this instance? Is there a way of making sure her DS can go on the residential?

prh47bridge · 21/04/2017 17:44

Haven't read the whole thread but excluding him from the residential trip for behaviour related to autism could be a breach of the Equality Act. The question is whether they have a legitimate aim in excluding him and whether excluding him is a proportionate way of achieving that aim. So if they could manage his behaviour with measures that stopped short of banning him from the trip it would be unlawful discrimination. If this went to tribunal it would be up to the school to convince them that alternative approaches were not possible.

It may be, as WombatStewForTea suggests, that banning your son from the weekend is necessary for his safety and/or the safety of others on the trip. But equally it may be unlawful discrimination.

Original poster

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 17:45

Behaviour that they have coped with in the past that only happens at times of change and is is avoidable.
On the practice paper front he is well prepared- actually completely over prepared which is half the problem (he can't understand why you would ever go over something you already know rather than learn something new) , it's the emotional side they haven't dealt with. The what days/what rooms/ practical side as well.

OP posts:

MrsTwix · 21/04/2017 17:46

Wombatstew I see your point completely, but it it's legally up to the school to find a way to deal with this. An extra member of staff would make the behaviour much more manageable, and given that no one is likely to make him do Sats practice on a trip he will probably be fine anyway.

Sprinklestar · 21/04/2017 17:46

Hi OP, I really feel for you. It sounds as though if the SATs weren't going on, and weren't given so much focus, none of this would be happening. It's up to the school to manage the (ridiculous) amount of pressure they put on pupils with regard to exams such as there. Maybe they need to take a long hard look at themselves in general, as well as specifically in relation to your son and his needs. Would you consider keeping him off school the days of the SATs? I'd be tempted to if his distress is as extreme as you say.

Ceto · 21/04/2017 17:49

if they go on the residential and he gets so anxious as to refuse to do an activity, it might not be so straightforward/safe to just leave him to his own devices and then it becomes a safety and safeguarding issue.

No, it doesn't. It becomes an equality issue. There is no reason why they should not be expected to comply with the law and make reasonable adjustments to deal with this type of issue which, let's face it, can't be unusual in schools. The most obvious one is to take someone along who can be his 1:1 when necessary and who has had training in how to avoid whatever triggers these problems and how to de-escalate them.

Chrisinthemorning · 21/04/2017 17:58

Are SATs at a particular time? If it's causing him mental anxiety I would just tell him he's not taking them, don't worry. Then ring school on the days in question and say he's poorly (true- anxiety is an illness)
In terms of the trip I think that's awful, take it to the governors. Obviously if they stop him going you will get a full refund?

DelphiniumBlue · 21/04/2017 17:58

Most schools I know struggle to find sufficient staff to go on residential trips. If his behaviour has escalated, that would probably require 2 extra members of staff in order to enable breaks/night time cover etc. The school can ask staff to volunteer but can't make them go. And if extra staff go on the trip, that leaves the school even more short-staffed while his class is away.
Many schools are cutting back on trips because of the extra staffing involved - especially as there have been staff cutbacks in nearly all schools.
It may be that the school has to balance his interests against the interests of the other children on the trip and remaining in school from a financial point of view.
The activities done on the residential trips can be potentially dangerous - it is vital that the children can reliably follow instructions, in order to keep themselves and others safe. If he is not able to do that consistently, then I'd question whether he should go.

GreatWhites · 21/04/2017 18:03

Residentials do involve change though. Many kids do struggle without their bed sheets and with the food, never mind the mud,very gung-ho instructors etc.

If he is currently more anxious than normal it is not outrageous to suggest his safety will be compromised if he attends.

Original poster

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 18:07

Sorry haven't had a chance to read all the replies, just a quick glance. Yes he is anxious with change but only change he isn't prepared for. He feels prepared for the trip. Knows his room, knows which teacher will give his medicine, knows what activities etc and is very calm about it.

DS got home at 5 and has just sobbed for an hour. Told me a similar account to the school but with a few key details the school didn't mention. Like the fact that they used the residential as a threat and shouted at him that he can't go if he doesn't behave- so much for having a meeting and discussing it with us first. He also explained why he was so reluctant to go in and why he refused and it would have been solved within 20/30 mins with far less staff had their been decent communication.

OP posts:

Itstimetoduel · 21/04/2017 18:15

Something that people tend to overlook in talks of inclusivity is what 'reasonable accommodations' actually means. The school can (rightly or wrongly) argue that to pay a 1:1 carer for a residential trip is an unreasonable level of expense given the budget that they have for such things is so limited. So while allowing a parent carer (for free) might be a reasonable accommodation, or allowing pick ups etc, sending an additional member of staff might not be. The reasonable accommodation also has to be balanced against the 'needs of the many' - again, not saying this is the case here - if something is a detriment to 20 people but allows someone with access needs to participate, then again this does not count as a reasonable accommodation most of the time.

Bantanddec · 21/04/2017 18:17

I wouldn't let my child go on a residential trip with people claiming they cannot handle their behaviour! Would you leave him with a childminder who said they couldn't handle it??!! No you wouldn't!

Original poster

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 18:19

Isittimetoduel- I completely get what you are saying and would understand if it was a sudden change they couldn't plan for/was beyond reasonable expectation to solve it but it isn't. He doesn't need a 1:1, he needs the school to let him know what's happening, that's all, it's not a big ask

OP posts:

Sprinklestar · 21/04/2017 18:25

So they used the trip cancellation as a threat? That's appalling! He can't help his anxiety. I'd be very upset if I were you, OP.

JigglyTuff · 21/04/2017 18:27

Either schools are inclusive or they're not.

"Imagine how you'd feel if he kicked off and ruined the trip for everyone else."

This is such a shitty thing to write and demonstrates the utter lack of understanding of what inclusivity means

What was their plan for accommodating his needs on this trip up until now EnglishRose? I presume they had one. How does it now need that be adjusted? That's what I'd ask

GreatWhites · 21/04/2017 18:29

I suspect the whole of Y6 have been warned that if they don't behave, they aren't going.

How long was he outside for?

If it takes 20-30 minutes to cajole him inside on a good day I can see the school's point.

Astro55 · 21/04/2017 18:32

This is such a shitty thing to write and demonstrates the utter lack of understanding of what inclusivity means

Couldn't agree more

Original poster

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 18:32

Great whites on a good day he walks straight in to school and that's the majority of the time, on a bad day that's well managed he will take 20/30 mins. On a day like today when the school failed it takes a lot longer.

OP posts:

Wolfiefan · 21/04/2017 18:32

The trouble with trips like these is the variables.
What if the coach breaks down and he becomes hugely anxious?
Or his room is out of action (water leak) and he has to move?
Or the member of staff he expects to give him his medication is ill and can't do it?
Weather means a change to activities planned?
Many schools are secure and fenced in and safe. Many residential places are. What if he runs off?

Trifleorbust · 21/04/2017 18:32

I hesitate to say this, but it sometimes seems to me that people tend to define 'reasonable adjustments' as 'adjustments which allow me to have what I want'. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. If the school can show it isn't feasible to provide a 1:1, or they have a good case to say they don't believe that will be sufficient to keep him and others safe, then there is no breach of the Equality Act.

I have no idea whether that is the case, but we can't assume it isn't.

Original poster

EnglishRose1320 · 21/04/2017 18:33

Bantanddec it's management that are using it as a threat, I am fairly confident his actual teachers don't feel that way.

OP posts:

Spikeyball · 21/04/2017 18:36

Providing extra support staff would generally be regarded as being a reasonable adjustment.

GreatWhites · 21/04/2017 18:36

What made today badly managed?

Are you sure that situations will be properly managed by instructors who don't know your son?

Astro55 · 21/04/2017 18:37

and given that no one is likely to make him do Sats practice on a trip he will probably be fine anyway

SATS is before they go away - not during or after

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