More of a wwyd? Need advice..

[user1492636556]

Hello, looking for advice and not sure if this is the best place to post. Long time lurker, first time poster.

Im 24 and have a DD who's just turned 2. I split with her father during my pregnancy due to his and his families behaviour towards me when I fell pregnant. (Note he has had MH issues in the past and can still display very erratic explosive behaviour which often makes me question that he still suffers with these issues) I know he still has feelings for me, and continually expresses the desire to get back together, but I have made it clear to him that it's not what I want.

When we split we both had to move back into our parents houses due to not being able to afford renting separately. We live in SE London, where rent is sky high. I am really happy living back with my parents as they give me lots of support and they love having us living with them. I am a SAHM atm.

He is an absolute brilliant dad towards our DD and she adores him. He sees her every weekend. No overnights as he doesn't have much space at his parents, but takes her out all day sat and sun.

Here's my issue and I don't really know how to deal with it.

My parents have always wanted to move away from the area as they get older, and preferably somewhere by the coast. My DM and DF have recently found a property that they are really interested in buying. Problem is, it's a 7 hour + drive from where we live at the moment. Me and my DM went to have a look at the property recently, and it is absolutely beautiful. Massive house, lovely location, and lots of potential for my DD to have a wonderful outdoorsy lifestyle. There is also a business opportunity for my parents there as well, meaning I would be able to work for them as well, earning money.

If it wasnt for my DDs father I would absolutely have no hesitation about moving there.

I have no way of staying in the SE by myself. I'm on the council list but on the lowest priority meaning I'll be waiting years for a place. I cannot afford to privately rent. The only option for me is to move with my parents and DD.

I have obviously broached the issue as sensitively as I can with her dad. And understandably he's gone ballistic. Accusing me of taking his DD away from him. I just don't really know what to do, the potential of us moving is seriously affecting his mental health, which I do understand as I would feel exactly the same.

There isn't really the option of him packing up and moving to be near us either. There's nothing in the way of work for him there and he's on such a low income ATM he wouldn't be able to get a deposit or anything together.

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice or if they've been in a similar situation. I want my DD to continue having a fabulous relationship with her dad but if we move I can't see how this is going to work.

Apologies for such a long post. Thanks if you've got this far


the judge won't stop the OP moving. The judge will only have the power to rule whether or not the OP's daughter can move.

So the OP doesn't have to be homeless, she can move with her parents. If it goes to court the only power the judge will have is to rule on where her DD should be resident and what contact should be and how that should be facilitated.

The judge won't stop the OP moving to the Outer Hebrides if she wants to. The only thing a judge, if it went to court, would be seeking to do would be to either stop the child moving, or make a ruling as to contact arrangements.

Hmm let me see. Overcrowded damp accommodation, no room even for a bed or lovely house by the coast. Which would you choose?

Live with Mother, who child has lived with since birth, or father who still suffers from "erratic explosive behaviour" (according to the OP)?

You're right of course OP, this is a brilliant opportunity to give your DDba lovely upbringing, in a beautiful place, where she will have lovely experiences every day, not just for the odd holiday.

I'm amazed so many people think making herself homeless or trying to get her parents to pay for a tiny, grim flat in London, where her daughter is unlikely to have any garden, let alone woods, beaches, mountains, would be a more sensible and better choice.
This is a real example of people not liking things outside their own comfort zone, but its their insecurity about the unknown, and personal preference, and has nothing to do with what is best for a little girl.
The dad can catch a train to see his DD, or try to get a proper job and get a flat to have her to stay...if he cannot motivate him self to come see his DD, sadly he would likely have lost touch as she got older anyway. Dads in the military regularly travel 100's of miles home for the weekend to see their DCs when based away - he can see her if he can be arsed, he's doing nothing else!

No judge would tell someone to stay on benefits in a city with nowhere to live, because its 'better' in any way than moving to an idyllic rural place, where they can build a life from a secure base.

'No judge would tell someone to stay on benefits in a city with nowhere to live, because its 'better' in any way than moving to an idyllic rural place, where they can build a life from a secure base.'

Or remove a child from the only primary caregiver she has ever known to live in over-crowded and damp accommodation. Get real!!

OP I don't think this thread is being very helpful. There is obviously alot to consider. I do think you need legal advice. If a judge orders you to do all the travelling say eow then that is going to be expensive and a real pain in the season, you being missing from Friday to Sunder just when you are likely to be needed at the b & b won't be easy and it will be expensive. I have no idea if that is likely or even possible but I have to say it wouldn't actually seem unfair to me.

I absolutely get why you don't want to go into temporary accommodation, I wouldn't have wanted that for my kids either. Then again I wouldn't have wanted them to have problems seeing their dad. It is incredibly difficult for you and listening to people who are tending to be one extreme or the other isn't going to make it any easier for you.

I asked earlier if you had considered taking your ex to see the b&b but you didn't answer, I would think about that as if it is as lovely as you say it might help him see your point of view.

Good luck I hope you manage to sort something out.

As neither you nor your ex are able to be financially responsible for your dd you don't have any choice, your dd has to go with the people that can look after her. I don't think any council would be happy to put you up in accommodation if you've got means of support elsewhere.

Speaking as someone who's parents and in-laws are all dead, I think you're bloody lucky you've got such supportive parents. Because clearly if anything happened to them you would be well and truly stuffed, having made no provision whatsoever for yours or your dds future. Your ex hasn't either so I really wouldn't worry too much what he has to say about it. You don't have any choice in the matter and if he wants to maintain a relationship he'll have to get off his arse and prove it.

Well, quite OP . Hence the reason I asked the reasonable question about whether you actually want to go - and for some reason you bristle back at me?

Whatever. Have your pat on the back and do want you want. That's what you wanted and enough people have given it to you for you to feel completely validated. If you're not willing to engage with the other suggestions then I don't really see what you're getting out of this anymore.

I really do feel desperately sorry for your DD in all this.

She may have a lovely home in the countryside but she will never have a decent relationship with her father.

You can say you would make it as easy as possible for contact between them but you can't.

There is no way you can shorten a 7 hour journey it will still be the same distance. Neither of you can afford to independently care for your DD so I don't see how you would be able to afford a 14 hour journey once/twice a month.

Your DD relationship with her father will suffer.

She will feel resentment when she is older, fingers crossed she will come out the other side understanding why you did what you did but until then she will blame you and probably him also.

You need legal advice and you need to really know what all your options are.

I cannot see any other way as both you and your ex cannot afford to house your DD yourselves and you are adamant that you cannot be rehoused.

I think you need to realise it won't be all roses and butterflies.

I really hope it all works out for you and your DD.

I would be off like a shot. It is an opportunity to give your daughter a better life, provides opportunities for you to be involved in the business and your parents to fulfil their dreams. I wouldn't think twice about your ex. I would facilitate visits but not feel guilty about him.

In your situation OP I would mive in a heartbeat. There is nothibg stopping your ex moving to a city/town close to you. After all people think it is ok for you to stay in London wuth no where to live and no support around you so it must be ok for him too right?

As for all the 's judge will make you stay' what planet do you live on at all. No judge in their right mind would make Ops daughter stay in those circumstances.

I would do everything in my power to make sure my DD has regular contact with her dad. But Yeah realistically it's not going to be as regular as they're both used to.

I realise it is a mess of a situation and Yeah I guess it has hit home that maybe I haven't provided my own home for my DD down in London. But it's so tough!! There's people still in their 30s + living with their parents in my area as they cannot afford to both rent and save for a house deposit.

It can work, my DH had to travel a lot further than 7 hours to see DSS when he was younger. It was tough, but they managed to retain a good relationship. It will only work if your ex is willing to put the effort in though. I suspect from what you've said about him, that he won't make the effort, and will blame you for being an evil witch and stealing his child. However, if he does go that way, I'd suggest your DD is better off without him anyway. The talk of erratic and aggressive behaviour, doesn't make him sound like father of the year! I hope the move works out for you.

Honestly, id go. Rent caps, benefit cuts, rising rents, the instability of private renting. No support with childcare and emergencies.
The government aren't going to make it easier.

Your daughters life will be a lot better and more stable. You'll have to be prepared to do the leg work and hand your daughter over for longer periods than if you lived near.

*not rent caps they would help!! I mean benefit caps

Facilitating visits will be harder, yes, but it's definitely possible for them to maintain a relationship. I moved to a different continent when DD was 4 (now 12). Her dad was upset but understood the reasons why and gave us permission. Since then they've skyped weekly (they bond by playing video games together online), and he comes to stay with us for a month out of every year. I know that not every family would be happy to have the ex around for that long, but we all do what it takes for DD and her dad to have as much time together as possible. Every other year we go back home for 6 weeks, and DD spends a few of those with her dad.

It's not a lot of contact time -- no one would say that it is (although in actuality it's about what he would see of her if he had EOW). But he always keeps up with what's going on in her life and they love each other dearly. If anything, their relationship has benefited in some ways because he doesn't have to deal with all the crap sides of parenting, and she's benefited by not being moved around from house to house throughout the week like we would have done if we had stayed.

There are pros and cons to every situation. Living far away from a parent doesn't mean the child can't have a strong relationship with them. If you stay, you'll be trading a rather large loss of quality of life for a couple extra hours of contact time per month. You could get the same number of hours by staying in London for four days a month (one long weekend) so he can get his contact time all at once. Or, like in our situation, he could come to you for one long weekend a month. It takes planning, commitment, budgeting, and a lot of putting on a happy face so everyone gets along, but it's doable.

Good luck, OP.

There is no way you can shorten a 7 hour journey it will still be the same distance.

Yes, there is. OP's ex could shift himself to get a job and a flat nearby instead of living with his parents. He has a First in English, so he has potentially a much wider choice of jobs than most.

It does seem like a hard decision but for the security of a roof over your head, a safe place to stay, a nice location with a good school and support with childcare you'd have to be mad to give it up for an ex who may meet someone else and decided it's not worth spending as much time with his little girl/ These things do happen. As long as you facilitate them having time together that's fine. And why should you set aside what's in your and your daughter's best interest for your ex? I am sure you can manage to sort out visits as necessary and there is Skype for between visits. It's not an easy decision to make.

teaandakitkat "I guess if you are running a seasonal b&b it might work out quite well for her to spend half of the summer holidays with him so you can work." He is also working how is he doing to look after his dd?

"I would think you would have to offer to alternate Christmas and new year. Maybe not when she's only 2, but as she gets older."

Only if it is in her daughter's best interests, where is she going to stay? The OP does not have to offer alternative Christmases if there is no where for her to stay!

I do know one family where one parent unilaterally moved along way with 2 children. The practicalities of doing the journey and holding down a job and the cost of the journey meant one parent had limited contact. For one child it has worked out OK, she is happily married and has a nice life. The other child is screwed up and still having counselling in their 30s. They blame the parent who moved them for this. Who can say how it will go?

grantytomine I asked earlier if you had considered taking your ex to see the b&b but you didn't answer, I would think about that as if it is as lovely as you say it might help him see your point of view.

The OP has answered this more than once. Despite the fact that the DP has been abusive to her parents, yes they would provide accommodation for him for visits.

The other child is screwed up and still having counselling in their 30s. They blame the parent who moved them for this. Who can say how it will go?

Or they could end up in counseling resenting a father who is too lazy to lift a finger to give them a better life and forced them to live in shitty temp accommodation changing address and school every few years.

Honestly I wonder how many posters in this thread have any clue how bad accommodation is in London for people in the OPs situation.

Also amazed at how few people think a well educated DP should be willing to lift a finger to improve his DDs life chances. He isn't locked into London, he could move too and improve his own lot along the way instead of living off his own parents.

C8H10N4O2 I agree. I don't understand urging the OP to make herself homeless so that the father can have contact hours evenly spaced week to week instead of month to month. There are ways to make contact happen, and drastically reducing DD's quality of life to do so seems crazy to me, especially when he's completely unable or unwilling to help provide a decent life for her himself.

grantytomine I asked earlier if you had considered taking your ex to see the b&b but you didn't answer, I would think about that as if it is as lovely as you say it might help him see your point of view.

The OP has answered this more than once. Despite the fact that the DP has been abusive to her parents, yes they would provide accommodation for him for visits.

But that isn't answering the question I asked. I was asking if she has considered taking him to see it so he can see the advantages not see it after they have moved. She still hasn't answered the question I asked.

Of course all sorts can happen but the OP asked about people's experiences and that is the one case I know personally where one parent unilaterally moved a child so far away that frequent contact was impossible. This guy is on NMW and he clearly can't visit mid week, if he went on Friday after work he wouldn't get there till about midnight and he would certainly have to leave before daughter's bedtime on a Sunday so not an awful lot of contact for an expensive 14 hr round trip. So however hard the OP tries to maintain contact it isn't going to be great.

I wouldn't want my child to be homeless so I absolutely understand her dilemma, her parents less so, as I said before you don't have to travel 7 hrs from London to live near the sea. This opportunity "just came up" well they must have been looking or they wouldn't have seen it.

By the way C8H10N4O2 the case I quoted had nothing to do with a lazy father not lifting a finger, it was the father who removed the children from their mother. Funny how MN people are always ready to blame the father. The mother was struggling to get by so didn't fight to keep children when father was much better off and able to offer more but trying to pay to visit them was a crippling expense for her.

Why does it have to be north Wales? The OP's parents can live the rural B and B dream much closer to SE London. Like Norfolk or somewhere.