Who is BU? Contact weekends and DCs

[GaelicSiog]

This will be long, sorry. I don't want to drip feed.

Two families.

L is DM and R is DF to DD3
L and R split before DD was born, R remarried to F. F has DD1, DD2 and DS1 from a previous relationship, and F and R have DTS2 and DTS3 together.

DD3 lives with L, and has contact with R EOW. Other DCs live with F and R, with DD1, DD2 and DS1 having contact with their dad every month.

DD3 attends an activity on Saturday mornings. Activity takes up the whole morning. DD3 has been doing this activity since she was 3 and the hours it takes up have increased as she's gotten older. DD3 is now 7. L signed her up for this activity. DD3 attends this activity every Saturday morning whichever weekend it is and has done since R managed to get a contract agreement set up. On contact weekends R takes DD3 to activity and picks her up. F takes DD1 and DD2 to another activity.

DS1 has decided he would like to start an activity which also runs on a Saturday morning. Closest place to do this is a 45 minute drive away, which means R cannot drop off DD3 and take DS1. R suggests that DD3 no longer attends her activity on contact weekends and can choose instead if she would like to go with R or F. She will still get to attend on weekends with L.

DD3 is upset because coaches at her activity say she cannot do comps if she doesn't come every weekend. L suggests contact hours are changed, DD3 stays with her Saturday mornings and is dropped with R and F after this activity. R isn't happy with his contact being shortened, and suggests DD3 arrive on Friday afternoon as normal, L picks her up Saturday morning and takes her to activity and drops her back after. L says she is not a taxi service. Parent of friend of DD3 who also attends her activity lives near F and R and offers to help with lifts. R isn't comfortable with this.

L tells R DD3 has said she feels her dad is putting his stepson ahead of her. She says R and F's solution isn't fair because it favours the resident DC. R and F feel L is using this as another excuse to scale back contact. R does not want to spend the morning driving back and forth taking both DCs every other Saturday.

If you're still with me, who is being unreasonable in this situation? Sorry for the length.

I agree with cuppa. I'm fuming for you, OP! "Discuss it as a family" indeed! Your DD isn't involved in that discussion. It's ridiculous, as there should be nothing to discuss. The lift from friend's parents is the perfect and fair solution yet your ex won't go for this due to his own ego

I wouldn't dare if he could come round here, but since he can't, I'm tempted.

That's exactly what upsets me about it. She clearly isn't considered family, she's a weekend guest. I don't know how she would react if he put that to her in front of her. Hopefully ask to come home.

This shit is bringing back so many bad memories.

The children don't get to make arrangements between themselves, under any circumstances. That is for the adults to decide. They can discuss all they like as a family but DD3 will be made to feel the villain of the piece for not wanting to disrupt her training and there will be an even greater rift between the DC.

I can't help wondering whether the DD1 has also been stirring because of having to share her room when DD3 stays. F and EX want to have another child and it's clear they are finding juggling kids activities a challenge now. He wants to see how much he can push DD3 to give up her activity to make their lives easier at his home. But he can't be seen to back down without a fight. If you take matters into your own hands he will claim you are preventing him having contact. I'm not sure why he bothers as it's certainly not for DD3's benefit.

It's interesting you say that about DD1. I first met DD1 the first time ex met DD. I had DD abroad, we made it home and I ended up back in hospital. Ex came and visited and brought DD1 along with him- I think he'd moved in with them at this point if I have the timeline right. DD1 wanted to feed DD, DSS1 is the same age as DD so I imagine she'd seen it going on at home. I'd just had to stop breastfeeding so it was a sore topic, and DD didn't need feeding so I said no. She wasn't happy. Not suggesting this has any bearing on their relationship now, but that was my first impression of her. She's always been a madam.

I just say poor kid stuck in the middle- but her activity was first, she sounds good at it, so should be encouraged and not hindred

I think you overestimate his sway with the courts. From long-time reading of mumsnet, EOW and a couple of weekdays is pretty standard. I imagine the father has to be OTT appalling to get anything less.

So I think it in this case you might have a good case for going back to court. Can you possibly get legal advice? You've certainly convinced all of us that this man is not acting in your dd's best interests.

Is dd's hobby one of those that cannot be done competitively at an older age if she doesn't compete at the moment? I'm just wondering because a bit older she could refuse to go to her dad's

She doesn't necessarily have to compete now, but if she drops the hours she's doing she may as well forget it. Which amounts to the same thing, really.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if DD1 has done more stirring over the bedrooms than I've factored into this until now. But than that doesn't make sense with the 50/50. And I am aware I am harsh on DD1 given I don't even know her because I can't look past scenario above. I know, atenco, I'm probably paranoid after last time. I hope I am. They don't have any practical way of doing 50/50 right now.

Legal advice may well be the next step. I'm waiting to see what they decide for this weekend.

Op it's not their decision to make. Your DD has decided, she absolutely wants to continue to attend and compete and you need to ensure that happens for her.

I would email him in the morning and say that as he hasn't contacted you to confirm he is able to take her to her Saturday session you will pick her up tomorrow evening, take her home and drop her back to her activity on Saturday from where he can pick her up at the usual finishing time. Expressly say you are keen for her Friday night contact with him to continue, repeat the offer made by your friend to take DD there from his every other Saturday and stress that if he can confirm he's agreeable to this asap you can make the necessary arrangements before his next contact weekend with DD. Request he replies directly to you by email.

Sorry, can I just ask-has he read the letter written by your DD? If he has, then getting his DSS to phone her is even more cuntish.

I'm assuming that F is behind this at this point, love, but this is not beyond the realms of possibility either. Although F is the woman who moved in with a new father denying his baby was his a couple of weeks after said baby was born, along with her own baby and had the cheek to send her eldest with him to see his ex in hospital. Sorry to keep using that example, I can't be doing with typing another one out tonight.

What twats

I really wouldn't worry about the courts. Dd is older now snd her wishes will feature very strongly.

I say this from experience

The situation now is different to when he first went to court.

When he first went to court he wanted a relationship with your DD and it was in her best interests to have contact with him because he could have been a good Dad.

Now he's not asking for access. He's not asking for something that could benefit your DD in anyway. He's asking/expecting to be able to deny her something she wants to do, that CAN be facilitated (because it has been until now) and the only reason he wants to take that from her is because his step-son wants to do an activity. It's not even like there has to be a choice between them, there is an option (the friend) whereby both children could do the activity - and you are not the one preventing that, he is.

There is a huge difference between him going to court and saying "I have no access and I want some" and going to court and saying "There are numerous options whereby DD can continue her activity, there are even options where both children can do their activity, but the only one I am willing to consider is the one where she gives up everything. Oh, and I'm prepared to resort to emotional blackmail and pitting the children against each other to get my way."

Wow, what a set up. It's given me a bit of a headache trying to keep track of all these comings and goings, I don't know how you manage it! And as for them, they want a 7th DC?! Sounds like they can barely manage the ones they already have.

Anyhow, late though it is, R totally unreasonable and as the only person 100% on her side and with no competing interests/ pulls, you are totally doing the right thing Fighting DD's corner. It's very telling that DD herself cares more about missing the activity (and presumably that environment with friends and coaches she sees more frequently than her DF), than about less contact with DF. He's seeing this through the lens of his own interests; F is seeing this through the lens of her biological DCs; only you are seeing this through DD's eyes. And DD herself. She sounds like a fighter, your girl. Good for her. That bedroom situation sounds heartbreaking, kids can be so cruel to each other. And as for getting the DSS to fight it out with DD - gobsmacked. This pair can't cope, they're not parenting if they're letting the kids fight this sort of thing out themselves.

What an absolute pair of twats. Shocking behaviour.

I think getting them to pick up after the activity on Saturday is the best solution all round. Just assume that is the new routine and see what happens. They will probably find it easier as well in the long run. If he takes it back to court then push for that arrangement.

I just worry what emotional pressure they will put on your daughter this weekend.

Where's she going to sleep if they had her 50/50 anyway ?

I've done it, I've stood up to him. DD told me this morning she would prefer to just go with the daddy picking her up tomorrow option. Which is absolutely sensible IMO. Still no word from ex at this point so I've emailed with DD's decision and I've texted DD's coach and told her I'm going to collect her 15 mins early this evening. There is absolutely no way they will arrive on time if they do try and collect her anyway, they are always late. And they know if they manage to find out my address somehow and show up they are in deep trouble with court. Going to drop her early tomorrow morning too just to avoid him, though I seriously doubt he will show tomorrow morning until convenient for them.

They need another bedroom. At the moment they have their 3 boys in one room and one of f's girls in each of the other bedrooms, because SDD1 won't share which is why DD has to go in with SDD1, SDD2's is a tiny box. Not disputing 3 in a bedroom, we had 4 in a bedroom when I was a kid, but 3 in a bedroom and one in a bedroom not that much smaller screams spoiled brat to me. So they are going to have to move before number 7, because they can't get another in the boy's room and there is no way SDD1 will move into the box so SDD2 can share with the baby.

At Christmas they had DD in the dining room with F's sister's stepkids

Well done you for standing up to him

Well done. If he contacts you just ignore him, or give him the broken record bland statement of facts - I will do this, blah blah.

Arsehole!

He is risking his relationship with DD by being so obstructive.

Oh, I'm going to vent about Christmas now because it will make me feel better. F's sister's family stayed over.

F and ex in their room.
DD1 in DD2's room. This was a compromise, DD1 did not want to share a room and DD2's room is tiny.
F's sister's DS in with DSS1, DSS2 and DSS3.
DD2 and F's sisters girls in DD1's room.
F's sister and partner in living room.
DD and F's sister's new partner's teenage girls in the dining room. DD is 7. She'd never met them before in her life.

Brilliant Op, I bet your DD is happy and your arrangements for pickups and drop offs sound sensible for this weekend. If you continue to insist he emails you then either you eventually get a written response which you have as a record or if he doesn't reply and you've saved all your communication to him then he comes across as uncooperative and obstructive to any court hearing.

The sleeping arrangements aren't acceptable at all. At least if within a few weeks they accept this new arrangement then your DD will only be sleeping there for one night every fortnight though I realise for longer periods in the holidays.

Certainly if her Father decides he's determined to keep the two nights and take up your friends offer of lifts for Saturday morning sessions I would email him regarding the sleeping arrangements (if you haven't already done so). Obviously not mentioning arrangements for their children but simply requesting he ensure DD has her own bed for when she sleeps overnight there. If he does take things back to court you would then have a written record of having raised this with him. And as they clearly can't manage 50:50 practically now, by the time they've possibly moved house, had another child etc your DD will be that year or two older at least and her opinion would be listened to more by the court.

My solicitor told me that DC like to know that they have a main residence "somewhere to hang their hat" was how she put it, but also they like to know that they have similar at the home of the parent who has their child for contact overnight. A bed of their own, somewhere to keep their things and some clothes. It sounds as though DD3 has none of these and is just living out of a suitcase, it's daddy's home but not hers, and she feels unwelcome.

I agree, put your plan in action and make him email, because if he doesn't respond he isn't disagreeing!

I wonder what a social worker's report would say about the living conditions for all the DC at F and R's home. I'm guessing adequate for EOW at the moment, but not for 50/50 and certainly not if they have another child.

When my EXH went through residency court case with his EXW2, their DD's refused to go for overnights. One of the reasons the eldest gave was she was made to sleep in the lounge and EXW2 insisted on a report. Social worker found a former reception room in a terraced house, beautifully furnished and decorated to the girls taste, for her sole occupancy, and which she had chosen because it was larger than the rooms that her sisters had upstairs, again their own rooms. There was a lounge at the rear of the property. I thought how funny that it had backfired so spectacularly. But that was EXW2 controlling her DD's. Unfortunately I had first hand experience of what a manipulative bitch she was as SM to my DS.

My point is, that you could raise the overcrowding issue in court if necessary if EX starts banging on about 50/50, and I bet he wouldn't want social services nosing around.

It all sounds rather chaotic.You're right to put your DD's needs first. I hope everything goes ok this weekend.

Well done you! Let us know how it goes tonight/tomorrow.

Dropped her off at her session. This is the one weekend I really could have done with her being at her dad's, I have my second kidney infection of this year. I've had no response from him, I suspect he's at work and stewing. Or waiting for F to draft a reply for him.

girly she sounds awful. I'm glad your DS is shot of her!

Chaotic is an understatement. DD1's behaviour in particular has been worse since they started on about number 7. I have no idea what is going to happen once the twins start wanting to get involved in activities, either. Plus the mess if F ever sees the side of him I did and runs is going to be chaos.

DD doesn't have much of "her" stuff there, I don't think. I haven't been in properly. I've been round there, but hand over happens on the driveway.

They don't really have her more in holidays, tbh. They get her every year for Christmas and usually keep her for a few days. They have a family wedding coming up soon, they will collect her at an agreed location and drop her back either that evening or the next morning. Depends on how many they have, usually. They don't plan on having her for extra overnights at the moment because DD1 kicks off. which is why the 50/50 thing is so ridiculous.