Children watching Peppa Pig on phones in restaurant

[SilverLeafClover]

We went for lunch with friends yesterday at the Fifteen restaurant near Newquay. I only mention the place because it has an amazing view of the beach and the sea, which made it all the more surprising that as soon as we sat down, my friend and her husband handed their children (both NT, aged 4 and 6) two phones. For the duration of the meal, the children sat zombie-like and watched Peppa Pig on the screens.

I will admit, I judged.

The parents did not speak to their children and the children were just glued to the screens. My three children aged 8, 5, 3 are not angels but managed to sit through a short meal (main course and then ice cream, no staters, no coffees) without needing screens. I talked to my adult friends and kept an eye on my children, pointing out stuff that was happening outside, large boats passing by, surfers, dogs etc.

Am I am a Luddite? Or am I right to think unlimited access to screens during a meal out is not right?

I remember taking my handheld console everywhere with me from being like 10. This was 20 years ago.

Before that (according to my grandmother) people didn't really go our for meals and stuff. It really was a one off special occasion type thing, for someones birthday or whatever. Not like now where its pretty normal for most people.

I remember taking my handheld console everywhere with me from being like 10. This was 20 years ago.

I was just about to say that too

Although I would never have got away with keeping the Gameboy on while I actually ate (and don't know how that would have worked logistically...!)

I see it as not much different to the colouring sheets and crayons restaurants have been giving out for decades really.

I think as parents we all have our strengths and weaknesses, very few among us can claim to be perfect - we all hopefully excel somewhere. Having a baby can be overwhelming, my Dsis found herself incredibly angry at my parent's benign neglect parenting style (some wasn't so benign) when she had her first child - she felt such an overpowering love. She was determined she'd do better than my parents but she over-compensated, helicoptered and controlled - her son won't allow her to advise him anymore because she is too interfering and as a consequence he has fucked up his Uni application form. We will all fuck up our kids in some way...I'm intrigued to know what will come back to bite me but at the moment I'm pretty happy that my teenagers are not embarrassed to be seen with dh and I, they listen to our council, they are happy and we all get on pretty well.....for now! But I am well aware that could change at any moment....you may not think you live in a glass house and can chuck stones liberally but you have no control over future events.....so judge all you like but be aware that humble pie is likely to be right around the corner!

What would we have done years ago? Before 'conveniences!?

Well actually, were this years ago, my eldest wouldn't be alive.

He would have died in utero instead of what we luckily had.

Due to modern conveniences he was surgically removed in a very unwell state weighing just 1.085kg (2lb6oz) he suffered a brain bleed as a result of being a preemie.

So yea, as I have said several times, sometimes you are judging stuff you know nothing of

Outwardly he can look normal

So yea, he is disabled, some physical things, not always obvious, a brain injury and autism. So again, I say, should we be condemned to never go out because at home he is comfortable, where devices are never used at mealtimes. Or can we be 'forgiven' for using iPads etc whilst waiting in restaurants, waiting for appointments I. Hospitals or dentists etc.

I don't think I need forgiving, I'd quite like less judging,

I repeat though, what would we have done years ago? Simple, he'd not have lived.

Flowergrrl not everyone is so judgmental.

Please don't stop doing as you are doing because of a narrow minded few.

Remember sometimes if people are looking over they're not judging, they might be feeling sympathetic or just being a bit nosy.

I was speaking for myself, not everyone over 50. I can't be responsible if other people stereotype.

Fair enough but the fact that you identified yourself as being of grandparent age made it sound like you were speaking for that cohort, even though you weren't

And if you read my post carefully, you would see that I don't judge anybody on one snapshot. The family I criticised used tablets in the dining room at every meal for a week.

In fact I read your post very carefully, and was well aware before I posted that you had been observing them over a period of days and I still say you were judging (your term not mine) on a snapshot (or a short video clip at best) in that you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes even if you have seen them every meal for a week.

Look I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you seem to be rather proud of judging them, without knowing what their options were, how frazzled they might be, the needs of their children etc etc.

See, I have rather more sympathy with the OP than I do with you. At least the people she was 'judging' were impacting on her in some way. From what you have said this family was not bothering you at all (except in some metaphysical way!) Your general concern is a credit to you but its seems to me you honestly have no way of knowing whether the children you saw are heading for a future where they can't leave a phone/tablet alone...obey instructions

If you lived next door to them or were related to them in some way it might be different.

What a very wise post Lottachocca

*What would we have done years ago? Before 'conveniences!

You could apply that logic to all sorts of things. I sincerely hope that if my granny were alive she wouldn't be judging me for using a washing machine just because when she was young she had to wash stuff in a tin bath and put it through a mangle.

And I remember the snide comments from people when my parents bought a dishwasher 35 years ago when they were relatively rare. Too lazy to wash up after their own children don't you know?

There are always those who like to think that using something for convenience amounts to a moral failing of some sort.

We're enjoying a long weekend away in London at the moment. Had a really good day doing the Cutty Sark and Royal Observatory and Quality Family Time but by the time we flopped down to eat this evening, the kids were ready for a bit of downtime and we were ready for them to have some. So they were allowed to glue themselves to their phones until the food arrived, whilst we adults chatted about what we'll do tomorrow. Not something I'd agree to at home but then we haven't usually been interacting for 10 hours solid.

I agree with the posts about times changing. Years ago I wouldn't be here. I would have bled to death in childbirth and my DH would have been bringing my child up. I know for a fact my child would have been brought up believing the TV was his other parent because DH has it on Morning till night and always has done since before I met him. As it happens I was helped as I approached 2litres of blood loss and I'm here to tell the tale.

I am not a parent who gives my Bear a screen as soon as we sit down but I am a parent who knows that I have it there as a back up. I'm also a parent who sees someone fighting with a toddler tantrum and I just give them a sympathetic look and thank my stars it's not me dealing with it. I've also "pimped out" my child as a playmate on holiday to children who are bored and sat with a group of adults and getting told off for being bored. My child will literally play with anyone and I carry crayons and paper at all times. It's about considerate parenting and just appreciating what you have. We all do it differently. I ha e says when I clock watch till bedtime because by 5pm I have had enough of the DuPlo and the playdoh (invented by Satan) and just want a nice quiet story and some cuddles. It doesn't make me a bad parent. If I go see someone who sits their child In front of TV all day I don't judge I just let myself off the next time I let Sammy Turtle occupy my son on the way to my family that Live a 5hr drive away!

@barbarianmum I used to live in Greenwich and love the observatory. Can't wait to take DC when he's older.

I love being able to take a tablet out to a restaurant for my daughter. When she is sitting playing happily on a tablet it is probably not very noticeable that she is autistic, because she is reasonably quiet and relaxed. I wasn't quite as lucky with her (also autistic) older brother, as tablets weren't a 'thing' when he was younger, so quite often we just didn't go out, or had to leave early because of crying and screaming, or running off. That wasn't particularly enjoyable, so it was pointless going out at all.

On some occasions I don't really enjoy going out with my youngest, despite her being more well behaved, because I am nervously looking around at people observing my 'lazy parenting.' Quite often I wish those people would just fuck off so we can eat our food in peace without rude staring. I repeat. Fuck off.

That sounds fine p1nkflam1ngos as long as the audio is not audible for other guests of the restaurant.

We always carry headphones. I don't like to draw attention, and I find it rude.

EdBalls - no, I don't know if the baby and toddler I saw will end up addicted to small screens after being forced to view them at mealtimes by their parents. Perhaps they will rebel and live "off the grid" in the woods with no electricity whatsoever.

I do know that overuse of small screens by children causes health problems, therefore I judged (internally) when I saw them.

www.nhs.uk/news/2016/11November/Pages/Smartphones-and-tablets-disrupts-childrens-sleep.aspx

Congratulations to you for being so saintly that you never pass judgement on anything unless you are personally being affected. I must have a character flaw or something because judgemental thoughts often pop into my head as I go about my daily life: "I like those shoes"', "that dress is too tight"', "that man's being rude to his wife", " that bouncy dog should be on a lead". I don't comment, tut, or stare, though - apart from on Mumsnet.

@sodabreadjam well done finding a supportive link for your point. Always the judgemental parents friend. I'm sure in your research you read about how actually children are born with sleep traits and how actually not much influences these habits except age and development. My DC is not reliant on screens or a phone. He doesn't watch copious amounts of TV and he doesn't ever sleep for more than an hour. Why? Well he's just like 60% of the worlds population. It's the developed world that thinks children should be sleep trained to sleep at night and awake in the day because it fits in with our needs and not theirs. My son does sleep eight hours a day but he chooses when to have those hours and that's fine by me. I grew up being in my bedroom watching TV unless I was needed to babysit my siblings and yet I will happily sleep for 20 hours in a day if allowed. Always have! You can get research and links to prove any point you like but every single person in our world is different and whilst I agree that the whole "blue light" thing is an issue for some it's not for others. Also the human race is so successful because we evolve and change to meet our surroundings. Our children will grow up with technology beyond our imagination 30yrs ago but their children will have something even better! Physically, chemically, emotionally we will adapt and evolve.

People used to think reading novels was terribly dangerous activity bound to corrupt young minds, jusy saying.

Sodajam you are an absolute hoot. Great crossing internet swords with you!

And no one but NO-ONE has EVER congratulated me on being saintly before, ironic or not!!

Elastic YES!!! And travelling in a fast trains (ie up to 10 mph)

Yes, it has been fun, EdBalls. Maybe we should write a book together - available in paper only - and so good it keeps everyone off their tablets.

Happy Easter!

Soda You are onto something!!!

@MummyBear - yes, I know that people in previous centuries used to have different sleep patterns and some people in Europe still do. It doesn't matter what your sleep pattern is as long as you are coping with your life.

Just to be clear, I have no issue with children and adults using phones and tablets - even at the occasional mealtime when the occasion demands. Their potential for education is enormous.

My issue is with:

-Parents who "force-feed" phone and tablet use on very young children to keep them docile and save the parents the bother of interacting.
-Children having problems conversing and interacting at school because they are so used to being on tablets - or being too tired to work because their sleep quality/quantity is so poor due to blue screen use.

Maybe my kids were stubborn but I can't imagine being able to force feed them anything, phones, tablets, even food. If they didn't want it they didn't have it. I think you would have bigger problems than screen time if that was the case.

Parents who "force-feed" phone and tablet use on very young children to keep them docile and save the parents the bother of interacting
ZChildren having problems conversing and interacting at school because they are so used to being on tablets - or being too tired to work because their sleep quality/quantity is so poor due to blue screen use.

How often do you see this? Because I never have.

Parents force-feeding screens to babies and toddlers - I have seen it - see my posts above.

Sleep deprivation - see my NHS link above - 20 studies involving 125,000 children aged 6 to 19.