To ask what earnings you would recommend for this lifestyle?

[Howmuch3]

Hello everyone,

I have namechanged as I am writing this with relatives here and don't want my usual name known.

We are currently on holiday with not much to do at this hour, so have been discussing about how expensive life seems to be becoming and it led to a conversation about earnings before children.

Long story short, I want to ask you ; how much do you think a couple in the South East should be earning before they have 2 children?

The lifestyle said couple would want for their family is ;
2 foreign holidays a year (1 big - e.g Mexico and 1 small - e.g Cyprus)
2 cars
4 bed house (average price is £300k )
Childcare for 2 kids
Activities/school trips for kids
Disposable income for the parents
Savings

If you have this sort of lifestyle(or better !) or know those who do, please let me know what you recommend. Also, would you delay having kids to reach that figure? Financial security for myself and my kids is very important.

Thank you

In the SE I'd say closer to £150 minimum.

We have DD at a private school (£14500 pa), 3 bed house, two cars, and take one holiday a year. Wouldn't be able to do it on less and not be stressed about money. And new baby on the way.
I'd say don't wait until you reach that to have children. You never know what may happen in trying to conceive (we will have a 4.6 year age gap, struggled in between!) and in the end, more important being happy than having buckets of money...

Why would you need to name-change to post this - for the life of me I don't know why posters claim this - to show authenticity?

You won't get a decent house for £300,000 in the SE ... end of.

Lapin I got the impression from the OP that her decision is not so much whether to have kids but more when to start TTC, i.e. they might choose to wait until they've reached a certain point in their careers with a certain level of earnings.

I agree with you though that the OP should be thinking not so much about whether they'll be able to afford holidays but more about whether they will be able to afford unexpected expenses or out of work periods.

So I would say - don't delay having DC until you're in a position to afford 2 holidays etc etc. But DO delay having DC (unless you have fertility issues) until you're financially secure and ideally in a position to have savings/extra income to cover the unexpected.

It depends if you're buying your first home or if it's a mortgage. we have 54k oop north and could do this .

One is a company car though and we wouldn't spend 10k on two holidays. When you are in this wage bracket you can. Erwin, to get cheaper holidays. Money leads to money

It would depend on your mortgage but probably doable on less that 50k. How often do your haircut though? Or have takeaway?

It would be first house but the purchase(deposit) will happen before the desired salary.

Lapin I do want children. Like a Pp said, it's more about when to start trying. I'd like to give them a certain lifestyle and so want to plan accordingly. If I find that I'm running out of time and haven't achieved that mark for whatever reason, then we will have them (assuming we can afford to live).

It's not about "2 foreign holidays" in particular, it's about the general lifestyle. We could swap the holidays for more savings or whatever. I was just trying to paint a picture of the ideal.

muggle I'm sorry I don't quite follow you

Now it all makes sense! Combined salary in our house is £55K before tax.
I wondered how so many people are living the lifestyle you described.
In our jobs/careers we are unlikely to climb very much higher and as I'm 50 years old, not fancying retraining for another career - who'd employ me anyway?
Having said all that, we're happy and still love each other after being together 20 years and we're not on the breadline.

There was a 4 bed house going for £240K near us not that long ago. Ten years old, end terrace, decent garden... they do exist in Kent! This is in a town that has good, high speed services to London as well.

If you want kids, go do it.
Me & hubby had pretty well paid jobs before the kids.
Nice 3 bed semi and 3-4 overseas holidays a year.

Saved hard and thought we were in a grear position.

Had 2 kids. Both got made redundant within 18 months of each other.

Now we both work part time, scrap by but love having time with the kids.

I have one DD and one on the way and we do struggle financially but I wouldn't change having her when we did for anything. She has so much fun just going to the park or playing in her Nanna's garden or just running around the house, she doesn't care if she is in Mexico or the UK.

For 1 child less than 100 is fine. But not for a 4 bed which will easily be over 500k in an average area
For 2 children, 120 plus
If you dial back on the holidays it will be better
It is mortgage and childcare (below the age of 3) that is the killer so just plan a long gap of 3-4 years plus a longish mat leave

When we had our daughter i was 28 , she is now 19" we had s three bedroom house in Glasgow worth sixty five grand. It was actually a nice house in a good area and that was the values then. We couldn't afford hols abroad although we both worked, and would have a week in the U.K. Her first holiday abroad she was nearly seven.

Roll on till now, we live in a house worth nearly seven figures in the south east, she's been privately educated since the age of four, we have one big long haul hol a year and a couple of long weekends abroad in Europe. There is no reason you cannot continue up the career ladder when you have children.your earnings continue to escalate in our experience.

I wouldn't delay having kids till I reached a certain level personally, I'd have kids when I was ready and then simply continue to work up the career ladder. It doesn't have to stall when you have kids unless you wish it too.

Salary combined of at least £100k would be required but actually probably more like £120k and that's based on knowing S London

People questioning where you can buy a 4 bed for £300k in S East....

• Greatstone
• Rainham
• Hailsham
• Sittingbourne
• Leigh-on-Sea
• Chatham
• Lydd
• Bexhill
• Polegate
• Grays
• Basildon

It's possible, just because that is the monthly rental charge of a shoebox in London, the rest of the country aren't as insane as us!

Really curious to know what you do for a living, op. How do you go from a combined income of £65k, to £100k each, in an area that actually pays half what you would earn in London?
So you could have a combined income of £400k, for the asking?
And live in a £300k house?
Sounds like complete fantasy to me.

Depends on what savings you want to make. We have a combined income of about £170k and live in Manchester! Granted it is south Manchester so house prices not dissimilar up south east (except London). A 4 bed house would cost on average of £500k! Our life style is nothing like what you have listed. We have one abroad holiday a year, usually to somewhere like Spain, one car, state school education, 2 kids who certainly don't get spoilt. However, we plough a lot of money into savings and investments for ours/kids future rather than spending it all now. So it really depends on how much you are prepared to spend and how much you save. I don't think you'd be saving much with that lifestyle and a combined income of £120-150k a year so how will you pay for the kids to go to university or help them getting on the property ladder or help contribute towards their weddings? (All just examples)

We're expecting our first baby in 3-months time. Our joint income is around £120/125k. When we bought our house 2.5 years ago in the SE London area, it cost £375k and is a 2-bed terrace. We're having the loft converted now to give us more room and enable us to stay here longer. It means we're wiping out any savings we had though (but we're not getting into debt over it).
We own one (luxury) car at the moment and if we needed another in the future, we'd just get a small run around.

Before now, we only took one holiday a year to all-inclusive adults-only resorts in the Caribbean, costing around £5k a time for 7 - 10 days. We've never gone away in Europe and had one short trip to Devon. I'm resigning myself to the idea of no long-haul holidays for a few years and we'll find something 'closer to home' and more affordable if we want to go away with the baby.

We have lots of 'ideals' for the life of our new baby and who knows if we'll be able to afford them or not. I'm likely to be taking a pay cut when I return to work after Mat Leave to fit around childcare and then obviously there's the cost of child care to account for too and keeping up with the mortgage and bills.

But, all that said, we're excited and looking forward to be starting our family. I wouldn't have wanted to leave it any longer (I'm 35, he's 42) and he's already talking about having another! Eager, haha!! Not sure how I feel about that!

I don't think there is a 'right time' in terms of finances; although it's natural to want the best for your children, but think about how you'd feel if you waited and then never had children because you either never reach your ideal earnings figure or you left it too late to be able to conceive. If the thought of not having children devastates you, then do it now rather than later!

Well, you're obviously not ready for kids, yet. Keep saving for your fantasy for a few more years, watch a few friends start families before you, and then get realistic.

Obviously it depends how old your children are, but as a rough guide for a baby and a 4yo...

2x holidays (outside school times): £6k
Living costs (excl mortgage): £12k
FT Childcare: £24k (nursery. More if you want a nanny)
Discretionary adult spending: £12k
DC activities (swimming lessons plus one extra each): £1.2k
Cars (owned outright, more if not): £2.5k

So, roughly £60k in your pocket per annum, plus your mortgage costs.

Childcare goes down when they go to school (but you will still need wraparound care), but activities and holidays go up.

We live in Greater London, and a 4 bed near us is in the region of £600k.

I'm in the South East OP. We have a combined income normally (I'm currently on mat leave so getting less) of about 55k pre-tax. I'd say for the lifestyle you want you would need at least double that, possibly more so.

It all really depends, there's not nearly enough to go on, e.g.:

(1) what do you mean by "childcare" - a childminder to watch kids for a couple of hours in the morning & at teatime, or a full-time nanny? the cost differential between the two is at least £20k - would grandparents or similar be helping out at all?;
(2) "car" is hopelessly vague, e.g. are you talking about buying 5 yr old ford focuses & keeping them for another 5-10 years, or something new, again, this could make a difference of about another £5k per year;
(3) "holiday" is vague;
(4) is £300k really enough for a house? would that be a [nearly, 100% mortgages don't exist anymore] £300k mortgage or say half of that?
(5) are we talking about 0, 1, or 2 rail season tickets, they could certainly set you back £2-£3k a pop for longer commutes.

also [say] a husband & wife earning £50k each is quite different to a husband earning £100k + a SAHM, because the tax, benefits, childcare, commuting, eetc costs aren't the same.

all in all I'd say that the very lowest income you might do this on might be about say a £55k single earner. this would be talking about secondhand cars only [people in the southeast will typically only need one car if one or more parent commutes], travelling with relatively low-class holiday companies, not having a cleaner or very large amounts of new clothes, eating out relatively rarely, shopping around for everything, being careful with utility bills, etc.

Op you sound like you've got your head screwed on and I think you are very wise to plan and think about future cost of living. You have received some excellent advice on this thread - I would echo what MM said and focus on not wasting money on fripperies like clothes and coffees; instead prioritise savings and do enjoy your long haul holidays now while you can.

Personally I'm glad I left having kids till later in life even though I'm permanently knackered because I have so many memories of the fabulous travelling I packed in when I was younger. I enjoy the low key UK holidaying we do now; I don't feel we are missing out because we spent a lot of years being adventurous.

It is also great to be financially secure and not have to worry about how I'm going to pay for the crown (tooth not tiara!) I cracked yesterday or the trumpet lessons that ds has set his funny little heart on.

Don't be pushed by family or friends into having kids before you are ready.

Depends if you have already bought that house / saved the deposit. We have a high household income. I'm careful, my dh is a spender. Our mortgage is relatively low (£1400 pm) but other household bills add up. We have a decent sized house so the little things like a cleaner (not essential but I would say in your aspiration from your op) and gardener soon add up. Also I expect you want a nice house. Most of our money goes on house maintenance / decoration if I'm honest. £100's of pounds a month. Holidays cost loads once you have more than one child. My dh took 2 of our children away for a long weekend short haul easy jet style recently and including spending money but not massively extravagant spent £2k.

That said don't put off having children for money else you may find an older version of yourself spending that money on obtaining those children. Good luck op, you are getting a bit of a ribbing but there is nothing wrong with being aspirational and planning your children / life accordingly. Just remember life doesn't always work out how you think it will. For me those children have been the push to get our household income up so that I can provide the life I want them to have.

Agree have children then live within your means.If you find you cant conceive easily it will eat you up that you waited.Nothing will be perfect but if you want children do that then work around them