To ask what earnings you would recommend for this lifestyle?

[Howmuch3]

Hello everyone,

I have namechanged as I am writing this with relatives here and don't want my usual name known.

We are currently on holiday with not much to do at this hour, so have been discussing about how expensive life seems to be becoming and it led to a conversation about earnings before children.

Long story short, I want to ask you ; how much do you think a couple in the South East should be earning before they have 2 children?

The lifestyle said couple would want for their family is ;
2 foreign holidays a year (1 big - e.g Mexico and 1 small - e.g Cyprus)
2 cars
4 bed house (average price is £300k )
Childcare for 2 kids
Activities/school trips for kids
Disposable income for the parents
Savings

If you have this sort of lifestyle(or better !) or know those who do, please let me know what you recommend. Also, would you delay having kids to reach that figure? Financial security for myself and my kids is very important.

Thank you

Ive only read the first page, so this has probably been said, but I'd park the 2 foreign holidays a year! When you have little kids, traipsing round airports with buggies, screaming toddlers on planes etc twice a year may just be too much hassle. I used to love a long haul holiday, but we haven't had a holiday where we haven't just been sat on a random identikit beach building sandcastles for 10 years. Be that in Norfolk or Tenerife! We sold a 3 bed terrace in greater London for 500K a year ago I know you said ditch the house price bit

Wow this thread is depressing. DH and I are currently planning how to save a deposit and get our incomes up to near 50k (joint) in order to be able to buy in a house in 5-8 years time!
We have three kids and did life totally the wrong way around!
We're all reasonably happy and healthy though, so that's a bonus.

Holidays and kids do mix it's just there are plenty geared towards them. Mexico is expensive for a kids holiday, do that now

To be honest I don't think 2 x 30k would buy the sort of lifestyle you're after even in most of the north, if you didn't already own a property or have a substantial deposit. Although there are some fantastically cheap areas. But in general, you could live nicely and comfortably on that in northern cities, but not two foreign holidays a year comfortable. If you didn't need to pay for childcare, yes.

Have to echo others that the sort of holiday you're talking about isn't likely to be the best use of funds with small children either. It's not that you can't have a nice time on expensive breaks abroad, you often still can. It's just risky, because they can quite easily ruin all of it. Or enough of it to make it not worth it. The problem with babies and particularly toddlers is that they're complete dicks sometimes. I find it's better to risk losing a few hundred pounds on a holiday that always has the potential to be miserable than a few thousand.

We manage on a single salary of 26k in the South East with 4 kids...

Sure, and people manage on less than that but that wasn't the question.

Sorry

That's ok - just didn't understand the comment really. Sorry.

Well I've requested it be deleted.

This is one of those 'how much does it cost to be middle class?' or 'how much does it cost to give my kids the same upbringing i had' threads that crop up on MN now and then, and to which I'm drawn like a moth to a flame because I work with demographics.

People always live right up to the brink, whether they're on £15k or £150k. Essential lifestyle accoutrements accumulate along with the extra income. You'll suddenly decide you need a bigger house or private school or a better-performing pension, and the extra won't last long.

If you're at the very start of your career, here are the things I wish I had known:

*Buy a place as soon as you can. Renting is very convenient whilst your career is in flux, but your career will never flourish whilst your living arrangements are insecure. Moving house at the behest of your landlord is very destabilising and in parts of the SE it can happen every year. If you can't afford a place where you work, buy a place you can afford somewhere you can see yourself living one day, and rent it out. It's just important to have that bedrock of security.

*Don't socialise with people whose lifestyle is subsidised by their parents. If they own their house outright and yours is on a mortgage, you may have the means to pay for the same holidays and eat at the same restaurants, but you can't really afford it in the same way.

*Investment dressing is a con: you don't need expensive clothes, and the latest bags, shoes and cosmetics to make a good impression in the workplace.

*All technology is a con. Buy the cheapest you can manage with, and use it until it breaks.

*All cars are a con, ditto.

*Save as much as you can in ISAs, premium bonds, pensions. Save before you spend, not what's left over.

*Don't pay off your student loan early.

*Don't have a fancy wedding.

I am very lucky to be financially secure and be having the exact lifestyle I would like, but if I hadn't made some many daft decisions in my early career I think I'd be positively rich by now.

MM that is so right!

We are SE and not london, a nice 4 bed round here seems to be north of a million easily, so I would go higher...

I know someone in SE. Ticks most the boxes except 3 bed house rather than 4. Mortgage is paid off so both have brand new cars. 2 holidays (one big, one small), 2 kids, they also have the odd long weekend away. Don't need to pay child care as one of them works part time, the other is full time. Joint income is no more than 60k.

Main thing is they bought their house almost 15 years ago and before having kids they overpaid their mortgage to get it paid off quicker.

Obviously a lot harder now as you will need 300-400k to get a 3-4 bed house in a nice area.

The lifestyle said couple would want for their family is ;
2 foreign holidays a year (1 big - e.g Mexico and 1 small - e.g Cyprus)
We've done this with kids for the last few years. It's really easy to do. My youngest has been all over the world since he was 3 incuding to Thailand and India. No issues at all, it just takes planning. Doesn't have to be expensive, we've done 5 of us to Thailand for less than £4k and did Disney including the parks for under £5K. Clever planning, indirect flights quirky but lovely guesthouses instead of 5 hotels or even 5 hotels using air miles. We do 2 holidays for about £6K a year

2 cars
Depends on if you buy outright but leases are sensible if you like a newish car. One small car at £130 per month and a bigger car at £250 per month. £4400 plus insurance and servicing, another £2k

4 bed house (average price is £300k ) current interest rates at less than 2%, so assume a £300k mortgage approx £1300 per month assume fixed for 5 ish years : 15600

Childcare for 2 kids - this will eat your money if you both work full time. £36500 for FT nursery at £70 a day. Spread your children out age wise and you'll pay say, £18k for one child in nursery and an aupair who can use your 4th bedroom at £80-90 per week to drop off and pick up your older one. £4160 - £4680. If one works Pt ro SAH this can be eliminated.

Activities/school trps for kids - £200 a month so £2400
Disposable income for the parents £500 a month each £12000

Savings £750 - 1000 per month circa £12000

other bills / foods etc £1500 per month

Total: 59,000 pa. That's net.

Total net income: £95080
That's £7923 net per month.
Approx £160k on one income, slightly less on a joint income as tax bandings would be different.

I wouldn't base having children on this but it's possible to live like this with kids, we do but we certainly didn't when our eldest was small, our joint income was £55K and we had a £140k mortgage. We lived fine and it has taken time to build up to this kind of lifestyle and bear in mind that teenagers cost a fortune.

Just to say I think people are massively underestimating the cost of after school activities in the SE. Here in London I pay £25 a week for each child to have a violin lesson, £10 a week for swimming lessons, about £7 a week each for netball and drama club and £40 a week for 11+ tutoring. So about £90 a week per child at the moment. For two kids that is £720 a month.

That was a really interesting post MMXV!

I'd argue that not quite all investment dressing is a con, there are some jobs where you're expected to look a certain way, but otherwise spot on.

But does it really make that much of a difference whether your suit comes off the peg from M&S/John Lewis or is made to measure on Saville Row?

I've seen it argued that decent quality high street clothing is simply not acceptable in certain industries, which is ridiculous.

I live in the South East and we bought our 5 bed for £290k two years ago we live in a nice village with excellent primary schools and decent secondaries. Granted we're semi-detached but it's not entirely laughable!

In mine no barbara, but I certainly know people who feel it's otherwise in their line of work. City, corporate etc. Not Savile Row as such, but I've read of posters on here talking about being told they needed to do things like use ironing services, and I know someone who was given advice about suitable types of suits before starting in a corporate law firm.

I don't see any reason to disbelieve something I've heard from more than one source? Ridiculous or otherwise, which I grant you it probably is.

Spot on MMXV. I'd make an exception for travelling though, because you won't be able to do it later once you have kids. But do it on a backpacker budget.

elisaveta I work as a corporate lawyer and all my clothes are high street (LK bennett not Primark but still high street) and so are most of my colleagues' clothes.

Oh LK Bennett was the sort of thing I was thinking of! Perhaps I should've been clearer that I meant that, rather than Saville Row. But I'd still have considered those prices to be investment dressing.

I must be really spendthrift!

On a joint income of £80k in Scotland we have:
0 foreign holidays a year (usually a week plus away in Britain a week at home and the rest of our annual leave goes on visiting relatives)
0 cars (1 moped; 2 bikes)
2 bed flat (cost us £250k )
0 kids
Some Disposable income
0 Savings

and 1 horse, which tbh probably explains the rest to some extent....

Ask Gideon Osbourne

Ispy where on earth did you find a 5 bed for 290k?! I want to move there! You wouldn't get a 1 bed flat here for that (village just outside Reading...)